ithildin | 'Chivalry'

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'Chivalry'

Welcome to the third installment of Methos Episode discussion! You can find the last one, for 'Finale' here.

Chivalry, Air Date: Dec. 1995

Nearly 350 years ago, MacLeod was the devoted lover of Kristin Gilles, a beautiful Immortal who taught him to be a gentleman. When he found another love, Kristin refused to let him go, killing his new lover. Now Kristin is sharing her bed with another new Immortal full of potential -- Richie. Methos, who knows MacLeod has never been able to kill Kristin because of his strict code of honor, has arrived in town to watch the fireworks as MacLeod tries to convince Richie that his new-found love is dangerous. ~ via tv.com

Next up will be Timeless. Look for it on Thursday.

A few quotes below the curtain

(Kristen is on the ground with her sword beside her)
Methos: Pick it up.
Kristen: Who are you?
Methos: Someone who was born long before the age of chivalry. Now pick it up.
_________________

Methos: Candygram!
Duncan: Methos. Or should I call you Adam?
Methos: Only you and Joe know that I'm Methos the Immortal. To the rest of the world I'm still Adam Pierson, mild mannered Watcher.
Duncan: Well, mi casa es su casa. How's Paris?
Methos: It's a lot quieter since you left. Taking up origami?
Duncan: No, I'm just renovating an old house.
Methos: Yeah, it's good to keep busy.
Duncan: So, what brings a five thousand year old man to me?
Methos: Kristen's in town. She just opened a new branch of her agency.
___________________

Methos: MacLeod-san, that katana is a lovely piece of art. May I? I washed my hands this morning. Quite a blade. (Methos holds the sword to Duncan's neck)
Duncan: Not funny, Methos.
Methos: Not meant to be. Not only are you naive, now you are weaponless. How have you lived this long? Do you know how many Immortals she's killed? Do you want a list?
Duncan: All right, you've made your point.
Methos: Have I? One day she is going to kill you.
Duncan: She's tried already.
Methos: You're better with a blade than her, yes. You are stronger than her, yes. But if you keep letting her walk away, one day she gets lucky and takes your head, yes.
Duncan: Oh, I dunno. Maybe she'll stop to gloat like you. (Duncan knocks Methos down) You wanna play?
Methos: Great! You knock me on my bum because I make a bad joke. Very macho! But you keep letting her walk away without even taking a shot... that is very suicidal.
Duncan: You know what she was to me.
Methos: Yes, and I know what she is, a killer! You treat her like one.
__________________________

Richie: She went nuts! She would have killed me.
Methos: Round two to Kristin. You dump her, and then you turn your back on her? Talk about the blind leading the visually challenged!
Richie: Thank you.
_________________________

Methos: (to Duncan) A couple of Medieval songwriters come up with the idea of chivalry one rainy day and you embrace it as a lifestyle. You live and die by a code of honor that was trendy when you were a kid.
__________________________

Duncan: Did you know Mencius?
Methos: Student of Confucius, yeah.
Duncan: I dislike death, but there are things that I dislike more than death.
Methos: Therefore there are occasions when I will not...
Methos/Duncan: ...avoid danger.
Methos: Death before dishonor.
Duncan: For some of us. (holds up paint strip samples) What do you think?
Methos: Get someone in.

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I think that so far, "Chivalry" is my favorite episode. It is just full of lots and lots of good stuff, including a glimpse into one facet of Duncan's education (how he started to get a taste for fine things), the developing relationship between Duncan and Methos (why is Methos there, anyway?), and Richie's continued naivete.

I love the way Methos says "Origami."

The swordfight between them in the dojo is, imho, almost erotically charged. There's a challenge there, and something going on beneath the surface. Considering its presence in every single d/m vid I've seen, I'd guess other slashers agree with me.

It's also fun to see how Methos changes back into Adam whenever Richie is around. Another bit of dialogue I like is this:

Richie: Don't you ever get tired of him being all older and wiser all the time?
Methos: Yeah, I can see how that could be annoying.

A perfect episode, imho.

Minus the slashy bits, I totally agree. Heh. I also like the little scene between Richie and Duncan about racing spaceships. All the more bittersweet now, of course.

Loved this episode (I think I can see why it is so many peoples favorite)

Was it just me or did AP and PW spend the entire episode flirting with each other? and if it is not just me is that where the (dynamics) of the Methos/Duncan relationship come in?

Or of course it could be peoples favorite for the bathtub scene wow! now that I appreciated, tell me do we get to see Methos in a similar state of undress hmm? (I know I am shallow but as long as I admit it)

Ok the story -

What is it with Duncan and these immortal women? How does he go from yelling at Kristen to bedding her! (mind you after the bath scene not that I blame her!) and the clothes am I alone at thinking he looked better before the makeover (lovely as the new duds were.)

Richie is so cute (dim but cute) Methos: Round two to Kristin. You dump her, and then you turn your back on her? Talk about the blind leading the visually challenged!

even with a moral women he was asking for a kick in the ass! but well I suppose I can't blame him she did turn on the charm and I guess as quite good at getting what she wanted.

Back to fangirly bit for a sec, lucky lady playing Richie's friend I could cope with almost drowning if I got a cuddle from Methos after :)

I suppose what stands out are the fight scenes with Methos doing "Adam" to lull Duncan then going full force Methos with Kristen then was that Adam again "Someone had to do it"

I liked the I washed my hands. Silly Methos everyone knows you shouldn't stop to gloat (or moralize) lucky for him Richie (finally) got out of bed.

That was cute though being totally overwhelmed by her, did it affect Duncan in the same way? I suppose so as that meant he would know what Richie was up against (pardon the pun) but how long do you think Kristen had been doing this leaving dead lovers behind? and dead mortals too by the look of things!

I read (everywhere now I come to think about it) that the nose painting was ad-libbed? must get around to locating DVD's for commentary on these bits.

Anyway have now watched Methos episodes in order up to "Till Death" so await with baited breath the discussion about madly in love Methos and will continue to watch rest of episodes I have :)

I absolutely love Chivalry. I think it's the first show where we actually meet *Methos*. Before we had only met Adam Pierson. And, more importantly, so had Duncan.

The sword fight in the dojo was very sexually charged. Then there's that moment when Duncan is bending over him - the katana held against Methos' neck. They are looking into one another's eyes and the air just crackles with sexual tension. All the way from the tv into our living rooms. Then the red headed kid had to show up. Darn it.

And the nose painting was ad-libbed. The look on Methos' (Peter's) face is priceless. And Peter talked about it at the Access con (which I have on tape). He said that they knew people would talk. Same thing with lying on Duncan's bed in The Messenger. Those boys are a lot of things: naughty, good looking, mischievious. But they aren't stupid. Then knew *exactly* what they were doing with every sultry look, all the flirting - the heat between them. And where was Methos living during this show?

And exactly why did he fly all the way from Paris to tell Duncan about Kristen? When he could have called? And why was Adam Pierson keeping up with Duncan using the Watcher files? He had to have been to know where to find Duncan and what was going on in Seacouver.

Besides that - Methos is cute as a bug *g*

Besides that - Methos is cute as a bug *g*

Now on that we agree! [g]

I need to comment on this ep a bit more, but with month end closing at work, and being exhausted from my party weekend :) I haven't had a chance.

And where was Methos living during this show? And exactly why did he fly all the way from Paris to tell Duncan about Kristen? When he could have called? And why was Adam Pierson keeping up with Duncan using the Watcher files? He had to have been to know where to find Duncan and what was going on in Seacouver.

Oh, all good questions, many of which have sparked some very good fanfic.

Just the fact that he knows all about Kristen and what role she played in Duncan's life means that he had to have been reading all about Duncan in his Chronicles. And about Kristen (there's that line about how many Immortals she's killed). I love that in an episode called "Chivalry", Methos swoops into town to rescue Duncan. Perhaps not the *traditional* version of chivalry, but certainly a modern twist on it.

Of course, we could debate how much Methos was really risking, given Kristen's abysmal sword skills.

Of course, we could debate how much Methos was really risking, given Kristen's abysmal sword skills.

But, see, to me this show wasn't about Kristen. It was about Duncan and Methos. Even if you (or others) don't see the Duncan/Methos - it was about Duncan *and* Methos. What was Methos risking? Not losing his head to Kristen.

This is the first time he let Duncan see Methos. He was risking alot. What if Duncan liked Adam and not Methos? What if it risked their friendship? A future relationship? Duncan is no fool. He knew Methos could have called. He knew Methos had been keeping checks on him.

And now he knew that the man he had been friends with in Paris was only a personna. If anything, I think it made Duncan that more interested and intrigued. But Methos couldn't be sure of that. Still he came. And he dared to let his true self out.

Interesting moment, that.

It was about Duncan and Methos. Even if you (or others) don't see the Duncan/Methos - it was about Duncan *and* Methos. What was Methos risking? Not losing his head to Kristen.

This is the first time he let Duncan see Methos. He was risking alot.

Oh, I do agree with the above! For me, it was a very powerful episode for those very reasons. Again, I'm trying to recall my reactions then, during that first viewing. I'd have to say that for me, it seemed Methos wanted someone to accept him for himself, to be *his* friend, not some persona's. When he says 'somone had to do it' I always thought there was a wistful sadness to the words. That Duncan wouldn't be able to accept 'Methos'.

Not to get all goopy, but I do think that there is a vulnerable side to Methos, and he made himself very vulnerable to Duncan. It was about Duncan *and* Methos, as you said, to me.

Another reason I was furious at Duncan many years later, but I won't jump ahead!

But, see, to me this show wasn't about Kristen. It was about Duncan and Methos.

Oh yes, I agree.

This is the first time he let Duncan see Methos. He was risking a lot. What if Duncan liked Adam and not Methos? What if it risked their friendship? A future relationship?

Oh yes, good point. It's true he's risking showing Duncan more of himself, and he's also risking annoying Duncan to the point where Duncan might make him leave. But I was looking at it more from Methos's perspective. Why did he come to Seacouver to rescue Duncan? Was it just because he hoped to be his friend? Was there risk involved--could he have lost his head? Or was it a calculated gambit to win Duncan's trust? There are many ways to look at it.

And now he knew that the man he had been friends with in Paris was only a persona.

Well, I dunno. I mean first of all, who is Methos? I don't know, I'm not sure even he knows anymore. When you've lived so long as a chameleon, how do you know who you are?

But on a more universal level, don't we all reveal ourselves this way to new people, a little at a time? And isn't there always a little nervousness involved when we decide to reveal more? It makes me think of David Abramowitz's statement that Immortals are like us, only more so.

Also, Methos has a confidence throughout this evidence that he is going to win Duncan over that makes me wonder how nervous he really is about revealing his "true" self. It just seems like a natural progression of things in a friendship/relationship to me. It isn't till much later that Methos has to really be afraid that Duncan won't accept some part of himself.

Or was it a calculated gambit to win Duncan's trust? There are many ways to look at it.

And isn't that the question? This weekend, other than talking about Kronos/Gilligan [g], we talked about the theory that this is all a long game plan of Methos to suck Duncan in, and then take his head at some point in the future.

Me? Yes, of course it's quite possible, but that's not my own personal perception of Methos :)

we talked about the theory that this is all a long game plan of Methos to suck Duncan in, and then take his head at some point in the future.

Me? Yes, of course it's quite possible, but that's not my own personal perception of Methos :)

oh yes that had occurred to me in my darker moments! not sure atm having just watched Judgment day etc I think Methos would be lucky to keep his head next time he meets Duncan he was seriously pissed off with the man.

Years ago I read a fic that had Methos as a serial killer. Freaked me out! :) And recently I read one where he'd had Cassandra locked up for decades after the Horseman eps, and finally, she's the only other immortal left and he kills her -- with Duncan's katana.

Now, while I enjoy reading good stories like the above, in my heart, I don't see Methos that way.

Oh you wouldn't happen to know where I find the stories you mention? I like being frightened!

But in my heart I do not see Methos like that either.

No, I'm sorry. I don't even remember the titles. The Cassandra one I found on seventh-dimension.org a few weeks ago. The serial killer one I think I read after the Horseman eps aired since it took place after that if I recall.

No hassle I will have a browse.

Think I have found them

Title: Something Borrowed, Something Blue
Author: Gillian Leeds

serial killer

and

The Myth_of_Methos by Quicksilver

did you want to read again?

Sure, I'll at least see if they're the ones I remembered.

Ok I think they are the ones, can not be too many on that theme!

jeez you were not wrong about nightmares!

The cassandra one gave me shivers thinking what he would do to our world now.

But the other, oh god "I never liked the name Jack" arrrgghhh! ok off to find some nice fluff to keep him at bay (never thought I would want to keep him out of my dreams!)

Oh I was thinking about what had been written about AP and PW flirting while filming the scenes in Chivalry and it reminds me of another series with two friends where the actors have mad crazy chemistry with each other, hmm?

Do you have the links?

http://www.seventh-dimension.org/stories/Leeds/SomethingBorrowed.txt

http://www.midnightrevolution.org/quicksilver/fanfics/highlander/oneshot/Myth_of_Methos.txt

Oh, those were indeed them. I'd kinda blocked out how horrific the serial killer one was. Now I remember. [shiver] [shudder]

(whoops, I meant *episode*, not *evidence*. Too many cop shows in my brain.)

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'Chivalry'

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