'Indiscretions'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the eighteenth installment of Methos Episode Discussion. You can find the last one, for Archangel here. All prior episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

Indiscretions, Air Date: May 1998

Methos and Joe Dawson join forces when past indiscretions threaten their lives-- and loved ones-- in the present. Morgan Walker has been nursing a grudge against Methos for two hundred years, and now he may finally get the chance to take his revenge... by kidnapping Joe's daughter. ~ recap and quotes via tv.com

Quotes below the curtain





Walker: I've waited almost two hundred years for this.
Methos: Do the words 'obsessive-compulsive' mean anything to you?
________________________

Joe: You have to turn the car around.
Methos: Why?
Joe: You're going the wrong way!
Methos: I beg to disagree, the bullets are back that way!
________________________

Methos: Just because I don't like to fight doesn't mean I can't.
________________________

Methos: Joe, we actually make a really good team. We could be like Scully and Mulder.
Joe: Yeah, right.
Methos: Sipowitz and Simone.
Joe: Whatever.
Methos: Caligula and Incutatis. No, maybe not Incutatis, cause he was a horse...
Joe: Will you shut up!
________________________

Joe: Just cause you couldn't keep it in your pants two hundred years ago, you expect me to turn over the Chronicles.
Methos: That was the basic idea, yes.
________________________






Please take a moment, if you haven't already, to vote for which season one episodes you'd like to discuss during the next round. Vote early, vote often :)

Next up will be To Be/Not to Be. Look for it next week.

Comments

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

well, I'm awake, and not going to work right away (there seems to be no phones or internet there, and lots of water everywhere) so hey, here I am!

I love this episode. I think it has some flaws, mostly in the camera work (weird places where it was like they didn't cover both actors during the scene the way they normally do). BUt the Methos and Joe interaction more than makes up for it.

Favorite moments: Snarky!Methos (nearly the whole ep). Wistful!Joe. THe scene where Methos cooly takes out the two thugs with trickery.

Then there's the ever popular question of just where Methos went when he was "there, mostly."

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Then there's the ever popular question of just where Methos went when he was "there, mostly."

Oh, yes, THAT question! *looks inquiringly at Methos, who shrugs*

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

THe scene where Methos cooly takes out the two thugs with trickery.

Yes, I love that. My favorite moment is when he appears ready to surrender to one of them because he is "out of bullets," and then shoots him.

So Methos. So great.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

I'm a dork, replying to my own post. But a thought : I like the comparison of the way Methos takes out the thugs with the way Duncan would have. Duncan has been known to take pleasure in the hunt/fight with evil thugs, but he's not as... detached about it. it's an interesting juxtaposition.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

I don't think Methos was exactly detached. The look in his eyes when he took out this second thug - he loved it to bits! It was then when the idea that he doesn't fight because he enjoys it too much hit me.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Then there's the ever popular question of just where Methos went when he was "there, mostly."

Traning dolphins at Seaworld :)

(I'm back! Dead computer most of the day)

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

I too love that Methos and Joe interactions. I also like the way Methos can be really hardcore when he wants to be - when he decides he has to get to Walker and take him down, he does so, very quickyl and efficently. As I told lemurgrrrl, I was unhappy about the curious eliding of Charlotte and her fate in the episode, but overall it's one of my favourites.

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm still annoyed by that, but I realize that one of the great things about Methos as a character is that he is flawed. He is not entirely likable. That's a risky thing to make a popular tv character, but they've done it with him.

The fact that he leaves Charlotte there when he *knows* Walker must have sensed Immortal presence, because he sensed Walker's, bothers me. But it is very much in character, and totally makes sense.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree it's in character - it just annoys me because *everybody* seems to either ignore Charlotte or use her as an excuse.

I do love this episode - Methos and Joe are very easy with each other, and it reminds me that they probably knew each other for years before Joe found out "Adam" was Methos. ^_^

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

Walker: I've waited almost two hundred years for this.
Methos: Do the words 'obsessive-compulsive' mean anything to you?

There are so many great lines in this ep--I think that's what I like most about it. Lots of funny.

Also, the flashback. We get so few of Methos's memories in the series, it's a real treat when we get one.

Oh, you know that bit about how he wishes he were at 35,000 feet, waiting for the flight attendant to come plump his pillow? I like to imagine he'd be going to London. :-)

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Oh wow! Indiscretions. Whose?

First - on that first quote - What Methos actually says is " Do the words compulsive - obssessive" mean anything to you? He says it backwards. Which always tickles me. I don't know what order they shot those scenes in, but in that first scene when he sees Walker, Methos eyes are all puffy and basically he looks like shit. Peter has said that he went out drinking that night and got about 30 minutes sleep. And admits that he was looking rather the worse for wear. So I wonder if that scene where he says the quote backwards was done the same day.

Secondly, we have talked about the Charlotte scene before and someone brought up the excellent point that the reason Methos didn't stay to fight Walker is because there was nothing he could do to save Charlotte. It was a mute point and Methos wasn't in the habit of sticking his neck out for lost causes. He's a pragmatist.

Further - I tend to look on the scene a bit more objectively. Charlotte knew Morgan Walker. She knew his temper and she knew where she stood with him. *She's* the one that came on to Bejamin. He was taking her word that Walker wouldn't be back. If anything Benjamin was the one given the wrong information and put at unnecessary risk. He was only going by her word. And she was very smooth. I don't think this was the first man she had seduced into Walker's bed while he was away. Not that I'm saying she deserved to be beaten or killed by any means. But she knew what kind of man he was and she went into the situation with full knowledge and with her eyes wide open. Why should Benjamin risk his life at that point? She belonged to Walker and during that time - he did not have the law on his side to intervene. Not to mention the Immortal factor.

Next - I love the scene in the warehouse. I love the interaction between Joe and Methos. I love the fact that the second Methos knows that Amy means something to Joe and why - it's a whole different situation. His demeaner instantly changes and he's no longer the sarcastic side-kick. He's instantly a predator and he's doing everything in his power to take care of those he loves. In this case Joe.

Which also goes back to Charlotte. He obviously thinks she's sexy and willingly used what she just as willingly offered (and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided). But he didn't love her. He wasn't emotionally attached to her. Methos takes care of himself and those he loves. Period.

I also like the way that Methos sets Joe up - knowing full well that Joe is leading him into a trap. And he understands and doesn't hold it against him. I love the fact that Methos cares. And that he did take care of Walker so easily.

I agree with all Pat said

[enchantersnight.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of your post Pat! especially

(and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided)

oh yes I could cope with that! (maybe not the dying afterward but heh)

I loved this episode so much I can not find enough words, so many things wonderful in it (The Methos and Joe Show totally should have been picked up by a TV station!)

Joe: You have to turn the car around.
Methos: Why?
Joe: You're going the wrong way!
Methos: I beg to disagree, the bullets are back that way!

Joe: You know, the Chronicles are not your personal Rolodex. You find another way to hunt him.

Methos: Hunt?! I don't want to hunt him!

and the hitch-hiking?
Joe: Let me try
Methos: [steps aside] Yeah, sure. They won't stop for me but they'll stop for you. Of course, they will.
Joe: [grins and licks thumb] Observe and record.
[Joe sticks his thumb out. A van immediately slows and stops. Joe laughs.]
These guys should get to do more comedy
OK so the drivers were all blind? come on who would not want to stop for these two guys!

Hmm reading quotes on methos.org think I will go dream a while :)

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

Next - I love the scene in the warehouse. I love the interaction between Joe and Methos. I love the fact that the second Methos knows that Amy means something to Joe and why - it's a whole different situation. His demeaner instantly changes and he's no longer the sarcastic side-kick. He's instantly a predator and he's doing everything in his power to take care of those he loves. In this case Joe.

You noticed that too? Yeah, it's great acting/directing/writing, or a combination of all of the above. That bit gave me oodles of insight into his character.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Wery nice summary, Pat. People often forget that the whole concept of chivalry doesn't make a lot of sense to Methos, beats me if I know why. :)

[multimedea.livejournal.com]

Further - I tend to look on the scene a bit more objectively. Charlotte knew Morgan Walker. She knew his temper and she knew where she stood with him. *She's* the one that came on to Bejamin. He was taking her word that Walker wouldn't be back. If anything Benjamin was the one given the wrong information and put at unnecessary risk. He was only going by her word. And she was very smooth. I don't think this was the first man she had seduced into Walker's bed while he was away. Not that I'm saying she deserved to be beaten or killed by any means. But she knew what kind of man he was and she went into the situation with full knowledge and with her eyes wide open. Why should Benjamin risk his life at that point? She belonged to Walker and during that time - he did not have the law on his side to intervene. Not to mention the Immortal factor.

Yet, Methos (as ROG he is) and Doctor Adams (as a gentleman of the period) both knew that Charlotte (as a slave and property) really had no say about how she could or couldn't use her body. She could offer it til the cows came home but in society's eyes he wasn't supposed to take her up on it. Not for her sake, of course, but because he would in effect be stealing her services from her master. He also was aware that any backlash from their tryst, should it become known, would fall entirely on her, up to the point of death. A calculated risk on his part for a little bit of nookie, but more than devastating on hers. But, hey, I like my Methos as a right proper b*stard. :D I also like how he 'rewrote' this section of the DVD Watcher Chronicles to appear more heroic on her behalf.

Here's a little moral quandry exercise for all the Methos lovers out there: would he have stayed and brazened it out for her sake if her master hadn't been Immortal?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I just love this episode. When I ask the question, "Want to watch Highlander ep?" Nin always says, "Yes! The Methos and Joe show!". It gets watched a lot in our home.

Methos taking out the bad guys, especially the 'you're out of bullets' guy. The look in his eyes. Then him drawing Joe in, knowing that Joe's lying, till Joe finally confesses. And the whole lead up to that about what a great team they make. And one of my all time fave Methos lines : I'm easily amused. [g] That weird thing you do with your face... Hah!

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

This is the HL epi I watch the most often too - Methos is just so Methosian in it - you gotta love a guy who wins against the baddies by being tricksy. This tricksyness is most likely a major reason that Methos has survived for so long. And all his interactions with Joe are perfect - Peter and Jim just have "it". This epi also always makes me wistful because I so wanted the Methos and Joe spin-off - and instead we got The Raven, which was just not a good show.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I wish I'd posted this yesterday when people were still here commenting, but what the heck :)

Something that had occurred to me, and then been forgotten, and now remembered again. Methos knew Morgan was an Immortal, and since he was a practicing doctor and around and about town, I'm assuming he and Morgan had at least run into each other from time to time. So did they have a 'live and let live' sort of arrangement? Was Walker an Immortal not much interested in playing 'the Game', and just wanted to live his life, such as it was, in peace? I can't see Methos hanging his hat in a town with a challange happy immie in residence.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

The callenge happy Immie was mostly at sea. I don't think Methos had to work too hard to avoid him.

[multimedea.livejournal.com]

Ah, "The Methos and Joe Show". That's all that needs to be said. That's how sweet it is.

I'd love to see someone write a fic with them doing their Bing & Bob thing, say Road to Babylonia, with Mac taking on the Dorothy Lamour role (in a sarong, of course.) veg

Only two more eps to go. (sob) Could we count the iFilm broadcast The Methos Chronicles and his DVD readings of Alexis' Postcards as Methos eps, too?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Only two more eps to go. (sob) Could we count the iFilm broadcast The Methos Chronicles and his DVD readings of Alexis' Postcards as Methos eps, too?

If you like :) I'm easy (but never cheap). I only made it through two of the iFilm things, but I do recall the reading at some con or the other. Didn't know there was a DVD of it.

So sure, I'm game. Can you give me a quick little summary of the iFilm thing? I don't recall enough about it for a post that would be much more than ' iFilm broadcast of The Methos Chronicles discuss'. [g]

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

I remember a few months ago, some LJ person discussed this episode with me. We talked about the scene where Joe finally breaks down and confesses that he's leading Methos into a trap. She believed that, had Joe NOT admitted it at that point, Methos would have slid him from the "beloved friend" into the "unfortunate enemy" column. With the same results as it did with Silas.

And while that wasn't my take on the scene ... it's certainly possible, isn't it?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Now there's a thought. If Joe hadn't confessed, I don't think Methos would have killed him, but he may have very well have driven off and left Joe there by himself and that would have been the last he ever saw of Methos.

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

"had Joe NOT admitted it at that point, Methos would have slid him from the "beloved friend" into the "unfortunate enemy" column. With the same results as it did with Silas."

Have to disagree with this one. I do not think Methos viewed Silas as an enemy. In fact, I think he very much cared for the big guy. Only problem was he could not see another way out. He had no choice at that time.

Methos is all about survival. Had he thought for a second he could have convinced Silas to drop the axe he would have. However, as much as they loved (no slash intended) each other he knew, that Silas, was Kronos' creature. The betrayal of Kronos and the Horsemen above all else sealed his fate with Silas because in some ways, Silas like MacLeod knew only black and white - One of them or Against them. Once he made the decision to let Cassandra live, he knew he had to fight and win or lose and die.

He hated it - cried about it, no doubt had a mild pang of guilt about it - given Silas's simple nature and the fact he pulled Silas back in for his own purposes, but - he did it to survive.

Roberta

[mackiedockie.livejournal.com]

I don't know--Methos reads Joe very well, and he certainly knows the sight (and feel) of a man caught on the horns of a dilemma. I'm almost amazed he didn't make a horny joke ;)

I don't think he would cast Joe into the enemy camp for struggling with weighing his daughter's life against endangering Methos. I do think that Methos would expect Joe to eventually realize that tactically and strategically they had a better chance to rescue Amy together than by acceding to Morgan's wishes. In fact, by teasing Joe unmercifully, Methos might have slowed down Joe's recognition of that fact.

Methos' plan is clearly better, and Joe falls in with it with no little enthusiasm. Too bad Duncan didn't listen nearly so well in "To Be..." , he might not have freaked out Joe so much by offering up his head. All in all, I'd say Joe had the superior learning curve, and Methos suspected as much *eg*.