'Indiscretions'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the eighteenth installment of Methos Episode Discussion. You can find the last one, for Archangel here. All prior episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

Indiscretions, Air Date: May 1998

Methos and Joe Dawson join forces when past indiscretions threaten their lives-- and loved ones-- in the present. Morgan Walker has been nursing a grudge against Methos for two hundred years, and now he may finally get the chance to take his revenge... by kidnapping Joe's daughter. ~ recap and quotes via tv.com

Quotes below the curtain





Walker: I've waited almost two hundred years for this.
Methos: Do the words 'obsessive-compulsive' mean anything to you?
________________________

Joe: You have to turn the car around.
Methos: Why?
Joe: You're going the wrong way!
Methos: I beg to disagree, the bullets are back that way!
________________________

Methos: Just because I don't like to fight doesn't mean I can't.
________________________

Methos: Joe, we actually make a really good team. We could be like Scully and Mulder.
Joe: Yeah, right.
Methos: Sipowitz and Simone.
Joe: Whatever.
Methos: Caligula and Incutatis. No, maybe not Incutatis, cause he was a horse...
Joe: Will you shut up!
________________________

Joe: Just cause you couldn't keep it in your pants two hundred years ago, you expect me to turn over the Chronicles.
Methos: That was the basic idea, yes.
________________________






Please take a moment, if you haven't already, to vote for which season one episodes you'd like to discuss during the next round. Vote early, vote often :)

Next up will be To Be/Not to Be. Look for it next week.

Comments

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Oh wow! Indiscretions. Whose?

First - on that first quote - What Methos actually says is " Do the words compulsive - obssessive" mean anything to you? He says it backwards. Which always tickles me. I don't know what order they shot those scenes in, but in that first scene when he sees Walker, Methos eyes are all puffy and basically he looks like shit. Peter has said that he went out drinking that night and got about 30 minutes sleep. And admits that he was looking rather the worse for wear. So I wonder if that scene where he says the quote backwards was done the same day.

Secondly, we have talked about the Charlotte scene before and someone brought up the excellent point that the reason Methos didn't stay to fight Walker is because there was nothing he could do to save Charlotte. It was a mute point and Methos wasn't in the habit of sticking his neck out for lost causes. He's a pragmatist.

Further - I tend to look on the scene a bit more objectively. Charlotte knew Morgan Walker. She knew his temper and she knew where she stood with him. *She's* the one that came on to Bejamin. He was taking her word that Walker wouldn't be back. If anything Benjamin was the one given the wrong information and put at unnecessary risk. He was only going by her word. And she was very smooth. I don't think this was the first man she had seduced into Walker's bed while he was away. Not that I'm saying she deserved to be beaten or killed by any means. But she knew what kind of man he was and she went into the situation with full knowledge and with her eyes wide open. Why should Benjamin risk his life at that point? She belonged to Walker and during that time - he did not have the law on his side to intervene. Not to mention the Immortal factor.

Next - I love the scene in the warehouse. I love the interaction between Joe and Methos. I love the fact that the second Methos knows that Amy means something to Joe and why - it's a whole different situation. His demeaner instantly changes and he's no longer the sarcastic side-kick. He's instantly a predator and he's doing everything in his power to take care of those he loves. In this case Joe.

Which also goes back to Charlotte. He obviously thinks she's sexy and willingly used what she just as willingly offered (and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided). But he didn't love her. He wasn't emotionally attached to her. Methos takes care of himself and those he loves. Period.

I also like the way that Methos sets Joe up - knowing full well that Joe is leading him into a trap. And he understands and doesn't hold it against him. I love the fact that Methos cares. And that he did take care of Walker so easily.

I agree with all Pat said

[enchantersnight.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of your post Pat! especially

(and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided)

oh yes I could cope with that! (maybe not the dying afterward but heh)

I loved this episode so much I can not find enough words, so many things wonderful in it (The Methos and Joe Show totally should have been picked up by a TV station!)

Joe: You have to turn the car around.
Methos: Why?
Joe: You're going the wrong way!
Methos: I beg to disagree, the bullets are back that way!

Joe: You know, the Chronicles are not your personal Rolodex. You find another way to hunt him.

Methos: Hunt?! I don't want to hunt him!

and the hitch-hiking?
Joe: Let me try
Methos: [steps aside] Yeah, sure. They won't stop for me but they'll stop for you. Of course, they will.
Joe: [grins and licks thumb] Observe and record.
[Joe sticks his thumb out. A van immediately slows and stops. Joe laughs.]
These guys should get to do more comedy
OK so the drivers were all blind? come on who would not want to stop for these two guys!

Hmm reading quotes on methos.org think I will go dream a while :)

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

"(and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided)"

Did anyone find it strange that they went to bed in the same room where he was treating what appeared to be sick child? I mean they walk over a few feet and wham!, she comes on to him, he responses and they are getting naked.

Okay, he wear the blue boxers - did they have blue boxers in 1808?, but it was just kinda weird. Methos wont do a threesome with Mary Shelly but he will have sex with a child in the room?

The leaving her part, no problem with that, Walker could not be sure the immortal was in his bed, just in the area so I figure Methos never really expected Walker to kill her.

Roberta

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

That's a good point about the sick child. I admit I forgot about the child once Methos picked her up in his arms. I also suspect everyone else did too - including Methos and Charlotte. Obviously the director did too *g*.

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

You expect them to have three rooms for each slave at the beginning of 1800s? Gosh, I think you're taking modern conveniences for granted. :)

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

"You expect them to have three rooms for each slave at the beginning of 1800s? Gosh, I think you're taking modern conveniences for granted. :)"

No. Actually I thought the bed was Walkers, not hers. And, given the digs, they were definitely not slaves quarters, since slaves would not have had beds - probably not even a pallet or mat, just the floor and blanket, and there would have been more of them, so clearly this was "Walkers" home / rooms.

It therefore follows anyone in them - Charlotte, child, - would be in a privileged position with Walker. Risking "sex" with another man (however enticing Methos may be), with a witness who could tell Walker is illogical, and Charlotte was very logical about Walker and not getting caught.

Roberta

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

The child was her brother. You really think she was keeping him in Walker's bedroom?

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

Did anyone find it strange that they went to bed in the same room where he was treating what appeared to be sick child?

No, that seems normal for the time and for most of Methos's existence. I'm sure he was delighted when civilization reached the point where you didn't have your LIVESTOCK in the same one-room house with you.

Sick Child in Room

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

"I'm sure he was delighted when civilization reached the point where you didn't have your LIVESTOCK in the same one-room house with you."

Well, having chickens, dogs, sheep and goats (see Byron discussion) in the same room is one thing. Having a child, and a sick child at that, is something else. Not to mention, the conversation seemed to indicate they did not want walker to know about it, so a witness seems a little careless on their part. Not to mention the next morning a "sick" child would have required attention even before Walker got back. I think I agree that they just forgot.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

Next - I love the scene in the warehouse. I love the interaction between Joe and Methos. I love the fact that the second Methos knows that Amy means something to Joe and why - it's a whole different situation. His demeaner instantly changes and he's no longer the sarcastic side-kick. He's instantly a predator and he's doing everything in his power to take care of those he loves. In this case Joe.

You noticed that too? Yeah, it's great acting/directing/writing, or a combination of all of the above. That bit gave me oodles of insight into his character.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Dodn't you think that Methos' 'dad' to Joe was kinda a little too sarcastic? I get the impression that he was probably a little hurt that Joe didn't tell him before. Like, way before.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Oh I agree. It was very sarcastic and I think Methos felt like he had been hit between the eyes with the information. It must have hurt a bit. And how ironic that Joe kept something from him when Methos had kept his identity and the fact that he was immortal the first few years they had known one another.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Wery nice summary, Pat. People often forget that the whole concept of chivalry doesn't make a lot of sense to Methos, beats me if I know why. :)

[multimedea.livejournal.com]

Further - I tend to look on the scene a bit more objectively. Charlotte knew Morgan Walker. She knew his temper and she knew where she stood with him. *She's* the one that came on to Bejamin. He was taking her word that Walker wouldn't be back. If anything Benjamin was the one given the wrong information and put at unnecessary risk. He was only going by her word. And she was very smooth. I don't think this was the first man she had seduced into Walker's bed while he was away. Not that I'm saying she deserved to be beaten or killed by any means. But she knew what kind of man he was and she went into the situation with full knowledge and with her eyes wide open. Why should Benjamin risk his life at that point? She belonged to Walker and during that time - he did not have the law on his side to intervene. Not to mention the Immortal factor.

Yet, Methos (as ROG he is) and Doctor Adams (as a gentleman of the period) both knew that Charlotte (as a slave and property) really had no say about how she could or couldn't use her body. She could offer it til the cows came home but in society's eyes he wasn't supposed to take her up on it. Not for her sake, of course, but because he would in effect be stealing her services from her master. He also was aware that any backlash from their tryst, should it become known, would fall entirely on her, up to the point of death. A calculated risk on his part for a little bit of nookie, but more than devastating on hers. But, hey, I like my Methos as a right proper b*stard. :D I also like how he 'rewrote' this section of the DVD Watcher Chronicles to appear more heroic on her behalf.

Here's a little moral quandry exercise for all the Methos lovers out there: would he have stayed and brazened it out for her sake if her master hadn't been Immortal?

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

no he wasn't supposed to take her up on it. But she knew what she was doing. She wasn't under any misconceptions about the possible consequences.

Would he have acted differently if Walker had been mortal? I don't think so. For 2 reasons. For one - it wasn't about losing his head. As he told Walker - just because he didn't like to fight didn't mean he couldn't. But to fight Walker because he bedded Walker's slave while he was away - would have created a scandal. And Methos stayed out of the limelight. He liked to stay very inconspicuous. Also, as I had pointed out in the other comment - the core of Methos' actions are that he takes care of himself and those he loves. One roll in the hay does not make an emotional attachment. He didn't love Charlotte. He had no connection to her. He would not have risked his neck to save her. Period. It's who he is.

Just like Amy. She would have been thrown to the wolves as far as Methos was concerned. She was a Watcher. So what? I think the way he put it was that Watchers know their risks and put themselves in the line of danger all the time. Why was Joe getting upset about it? It was only when he learned that she was Joe's daughter that he changed into the predator we know he can be. He didn't save Amy because he cared one wit about Amy. He loves Joe.

And as he told Duncan - since he didn't give a damn about Jacob Galliti the decision to forfeit him in place of Duncan's life - who he did care about - was not difficult to make.

[multimedea.livejournal.com]

I think he might have stayed and tryed to tough it out if Walker was mortal, because:

a) Methos wouldn't have known he was approaching and would have been caught in flagrante.

b) A tussle with a mortal, even with attendent scandal, is much more predictable and survivable than one with an Immortal.

c) I think he would have liked to look good in front of her. Not for overly romantic reasons, but because he seemed just that vain back in the 19th century.

Methos & Walker

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

I think Methos also forgot about the sick child in the room. He simply should have put his clothes on, and gone over to attend the child. As it was morning and Walker was getting back from sea, a Doctor (even an Immortal one) checking on a patient would not have been suspicious, especially if that patient was his property.

No, I actually think Methos and Walker had history and Methos slept with Charlotte for reasons of his own, but never wanted Charlotte to die.

Roberta