ithildin | HLS5: 'The Messenger'

Let's see if this episode generates more interest than 'Glory Days' did!

Highlander Season Five

The Messenger
Air Date: Nov. 1996

Richie's found a new teacher: an Immortal who preaches a message of peace. An Immortal who believes that all Immortals can lay down their swords and live together as brothers. An Immortal who claims to be the oldest of their kind still alive -- Methos. Will laying down his sword in the name of peace mean Richie will lose his head? And what does this mean for the friend MacLeod already calls Methos?
~ recap via TV.com

Next week: The Valkyrie

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The fake Methos. I always wondered if he really believed his spiel or if it was a way to winnow down the competition?

I'm always amused at the light speed Duncan achieves getting form the dojo to Richie with his sword.

I've always assumed that the fake Methos is the reason Kronos actually ended up finding the real Methos.

I've always assumed that the fake Methos is the reason Kronos actually ended up finding the real Methos.

Same here. I interpreted Methos's "oh expletive" face when Kronos said he'd slipped up there as "I should have killed that imposter centuries ago."

The fake Methos. I always wondered if he really believed his spiel or if it was a way to winnow down the competition? I've wondered it too, it's hard to tell and perhaps that's how the writers wanted it-it's never clearly answered. I tend to be mistrusting so I think my instinct would be that he's plotting the immortals against each other so as to pick them all out. Buuuut there's the part of me that would also like to believe that he really was a good man. As for the fake Methos being the reason the real one found Methos...I'm not sure, I've never thought about it and it's been quite sometime since I've watched them consecutively but I'll have to do that now.

Well, we know the REAL Methos has GLOWING RED EARS.

8-)

[snorfle]

Sings to the tune of Rudolph...

Methos the red eared immie, had some very shiny ears, and if you ever saw them, you might even say they glowed. All of the other immies, used to laugh and call him names, they wouldn't let poor Methos, play in any gathering games.

Then one foggy Christmas Eve, Duncan came to say, 'Methos with your ears so bright, won't you light my barge tonight?'

Then all the immies loved him, and they shouted out with glee, 'Methos the Red Eared immie, you'll go down in historyyyyyyyy!"

You are one sick woman. That's almost enough to make someone stop stalking a person.

8-)

Pfft! You were the one that brought up the red ears!

That's almost enough to make someone stop stalking a person.

Uh huh.

And there's the PROOF! Thanks, Pat. 8-)

Yeesh, I hope this doesn't start her off singing again!

[clears throat][hums a bit]

Nah, I'm going to see if I can Methos into the Frosty the Snowman song!

See? Pat is inspiring my musical muse! [beams]

But he's just so darn pretty. Even with red ears.

that was great

I couldn't hack the fake Methos, perhaps he was meant to be serene but IMHO he was just plain wooden. Richie was too smart and street wise to be taken in by him.

Yay! You made it! Nice to see you :)

Cheers!
I`m very slowly getting the suss on LJ, maybe I should change my default to a tortoise...

I love this episode, but you're right, Ron Perlman was awful. David Abramowitz even commented on the DVD that he felt Perlman was "phoning it in." I wish they had cast someone more like Victor Paulus from "Band of Brothers." I think a better actor in that role would have made the moral dilemma more keenly felt.

(Nevertheless, "Methos meets Methos" is one of my favorite Highlander scenes ever.)

Ron Perlman completely phoned it in. I wonder why they were even discussing how utterly fantastic Perlman could be in the DVD thingie when it was pretty clear from the episode that Perlman couldn't act his way out of a paper bag. Then again, I haven't seen anything else he's been in. Anyone have any recommendations?

He was the lead in the TV series Beauty and the Beast and was amazing.

I just watched this episode yesterday, crazily enough.

I enjoyed this episode, though I'll agree that the fake!Methos seemed really fake. He didn't seem like he actually believed what he was saying to me. Seems like he was just saying it to thin out the competition like you said. I don't think that's what the writers were intended, but that's how it seemed.

Aside from that, the Methos scenes are awesome. There is the obvious awesomeness of the scene with real & fake Methos talking, but I also love the scene where he tells Duncan the story of the Spaniard. Joe's "You are one calculating son of a bitch." comment makes me laugh every time.

I just watched this episode yesterday, crazily enough.

Perfect timing!

Methos telling the Spaniard story is a favourite of mine as well.

In my usual lazy way, I'm not going to re-analyze the episode, just repeat my comments from my original episode description and commentary found at:
http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/Season5/Messenger.htm

My comments: I liked a number of things about this episode, but I have to agree with David A. that Ron Perlman’s performance had no real emotional resonance or passion. He was so intent on being the personification of wise and calm that his presence on screen was flat and colorless.

The Andersonville flashback was emotionally strong, if visually rather sparse. It was one of the few times that I felt they didn’t really capitalize on an opportunity to show us a distinct time and place. The “prison” was hardly the horrific, overcrowded death camp we know from historical reports, but the scene where Duncan has to break Jeffrey’s neck was particularly poignant and almost hard to watch.

All the “real” Methos scenes were terrific, and the contrast between OM and the real Methos was deliberately played up in a way that showed us a simultaneously very harsh and coldly pragmatic but caring person, and emphasized how little we know of the “real” personality, motives and thinking of the character.

As a villain, Culbraith was poorly done. They started out well by giving him a real reason for becoming hard and cruel, but in the present day scenes his character was without any focus at all.

I found it interesting that Methos in some ways contradicted his view expressed to Duncan in “The Valkyrie”, where he implied that if it hadn’t been Hitler, it would have been someone else, since “history makes men.” His comments to the OM implied that he considered Genghis Kahn and Hitler truly evil men. Of course, consistency has never seemed to be something Methos cared much about.

I thought it would also be amusing to post the descriptions of the outtakes for this particular episode:

OUTTAKES: We see the scene in the dojo office, where Methos tells Joe and Duncan about the guy who gets tortured by the Inquisition. At the end of the scene, Joe says, “Well have one on me,” and pours a drink over Methos’ head. He jumps up and yells, “What the hell was that for!?” Joe tells him it was a demonstration of an “unforeseen di-lemma.” Peter wipes his hands over his head, glares at Joe/Jim, and mouths “f**k you.” The director yells (loudly) “CUT!” as the crew laughs. Then we see a second take of the same set of lines, but this time w/o the obscenity.

Gillian tells us that a longer version of the scene where Richie learns Methos’ real identity contains definitive answers to some issues that they later chose to leave ambiguous, and that the scene never ended the same way twice. What I guess she is talking about was that in the outtake, Methos says he “used to be Adam Pierson” but that he gave up that identity. (In the aired episodes, it isn’t quite clear when (or if) Methos gave up the “Adam Pierson” identity.) A number of amusing lines demonstrating Richie’s dubiousness that “Adam Pierson” was the real Methos were cut from the aired scene, but then at the end of the scene, when first Richie, then Duncan, then Joe depart, leaving Methos alone at the bar, first he sighs and says maybe he’ll go buy some socks (that’s the one that got aired); then in the second take he looks around at the empty bar and mutters, “Can I get credit in this bar, still?” then leans over the bar like he’s reaching for a drink; and the third time he leans his head on his hand and smiles and says, “I guess it just leaves me and the crew,” which breaks everybody up.

After a completely meaningless outtake about Richie’s fight with Culbraith, they show how Richie’s Quickening was put together by him acting out the Q, waving his arms and bobbing around against a blue screen with the sound and background effects of scenes from Andersonville added later. In my opinion, this was the most awkward Q in the series. Stan just didn’t have the technique down and looked very uncomfortable with the whole thing. In further demonstration of that fact, an alternate version with the same arm flapping, grimacing Stan Kirsch is shown (and Gillian and Donna L. have shown the alternate version at cons to give everyone a chuckle), but the background is ocean surf, and the song “Wipe Out” is playing. Pretty silly and just a tad cruel, but funny.

I need to watch the outtakes again.

I have to agree with everyone else. Ron P just phoned it in. And I understand what David was trying to accomplish with the episode. It would also have been wonderful to put that doubt out there - is *our* Methos the real Methos or is he a fake?

And the contrast between the two characters and their thoughts about life could have been so compelling. Instead the performance was not up to par. Peter was great, of course. But Ron just didn't step up to the plate.

However, it is still one of my favorite episodes. It has alot of great scenes: the bed scene, the Methos-Methos confrontation, the bed scene, the bar scene when they tell Richie, the bed scene, the office scene when Methos tells them the story about the Spaniard, and the bed scene.

you forgot the best one, THE BED SCENE!

I love this ep, although I always fast-forward through the prison scenes, the I Am An Angry Angsty Southerner scenes, and Richie taking the quickening. There are some excellent bits of Methos backstory. One thing I wish had been explained better was how the Messenger survived so long without carrying a sword. But I think the Messenger is the Methos-of-legend. You have this enduring tale in Immortal-land, so pervasive and handed down that even Richie's heard of him, and it's all sweetness and light and peace. That doesn't sound at all like our Methos, but it does sound a lot like the Messenger. Methinks Methos was riding heavily on the Messenger's coattails in getting MacLeod and Joe to ever trust him.

I watched the ep just this morning and I'd have to agree that the fake Methos is completely wooden.
What makes this ep are the scenes the real Methos is in. *total PW love* :D Absolutely love his come back with him lying on the bed! :D :P
I also think the message from the fake Methos is kinda wacky. As far as peace messages go, I've heard better, both in fiction and RL. So what gives? :P

This ep wins just for the scene with Methos laid out on Duncan's bed like an offering on an altar. Guh!

First real post here-I just found out about this. A fellow fan was kind enough to send me old VHS copies she'd taped so I pulled out the one with this episode on it. I like this episode, yeaaah as others have mentioned Pearlman's acting was rather dull but aside from that it's good. Of course there's the wonderful scene when Duncan comes in to find Methos sprawled on his bed. I like that the scene shows the interaction between Methos and Duncan-first of all it's likely that if it had been somebody else-another friend-on his bed, Duncan would have reacted angrier but with Methos it's just this mild annoyance. Or just the cute like play between them-Methos throws the jacket off the chair to sit, Duncan picks it up, Methos has (what DOES he have) in his hands and Duncan takes it out. Even earlier than that, when Duncan clearly has some ruffled feathers and is bothered by the guy just taking Methos' name-Methos on the other hand is just like 'eh' he doesn't care it it seems like that bothers Duncan.

There's also Methos' actions and habits-perhaps I just read way too much into these things but I always thought it was funny that Methos is respectful and neat enough to have obviously set his shoes neatly on the floor beside the bed-he could have just hurled them anywhere...and yet he then gets up and places them on the kitchen counter.

Aaaaaaand just for pretty scenes, I absolutely LOVE the Methos-Methos confrontation when real Methos leaves and so cooly slides his sword back into his coat and the little careless spin he does when responding to fake Methos' comment that he didn't catch his name.

So glad to see you made it!

I absolutely LOVE the Methos-Methos confrontation when real Methos leaves and so cooly slides his sword back into his coat and the little careless spin he does when responding to fake Methos' comment that he didn't catch his name.

That's absolutely AWESOME!

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The Elves have left us, and we have not mourned to see them go.

HLS5: 'The Messenger'

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