A Game of Thrones

[ithildin]

Since several people had good things to say, and since it's going to be a mini series, I ordered 'A Game of Thrones', which arrived yesterday. And I was enjoying it, thinking I might order the second one, until....


My favourite character was killed off. Now I'm kinda meh about the whole thing. Not sure wicked queen [insert dire music] and presumably, the spunky younger daughter posing as a boy to escape the wicked queen/avenge her father (it just seems like the fantasy novel cliched sorta thing that one expects) is going to hold my interest through three more very long books. And from what I understand, the series isn't even finished yet.

So tell me, is it worth plugging away? I'm almost done, so I will at least finish the first one. I'm kind of bummed, since I really did think the series had promise.

at least tell me that there's no posing as a boy!

Comments

[calime]

Well, I have all that's been written so far, and I have to say I do keep enjoying it - though I had a kind of similar reaction to yours when the first killings of main characters started. I'm probably lucky because the one I like most is still alive, so far. The thing is, a lot of chars that maybe would not be expected to die per 'general average fantasy bookverse rules' do die in this series, I think the author has even declared somewhere that he kind of likes killing them off, or does not mind, or something. In a way, it does make the world feel more real - which I like-, OTOH, well, if you're well into your nice escapist fantasy place, and your best beloved char gets whacked, well, um, ow. (Which, btw, is why I'm mildly surprised at the squee about some casting spoilers - I'm maybe old-fashioned, but I'm not sure that a naked lovescene with a nice actor makes up for the char dying soonish.)
Though, just as a heads up - there will be new characters brought in, also - so maybe you'll find another one to carry your interest (of course, nothing says they won't be killed at some point either).
So, I'm kind of ambivalent on the series - I love the world he builds, but I'm kind of careful not to get too attached to the characters. Not sure yet what my 'ultimate verdict' will be *grin*, but I still plan to buy all the books that come out. I'll likely never be as passionate about it as I'm, say, about the LOTR, but ... I do like it. Despite (or maybe because) it is also rather easy to get lost in the vast maze of characers and storylines:) I've found that it is more rewarding for me to read that book as a vast 'history/saga' thing, moving from an upper layer, so to speak, to a lower one (to get primarily into the 'flow of history' and have the rooting for a character or other as a secondary layer). If I read it as an ongoing, developing, unfolding thing, losing chars I love would dampen my enjoyment too much. If I read it as if an already-happened chronicles, it somehow helps, while still enabling me to care about a character.

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

Hubby is on Book 4 of the series and he's really enjoying them exactly because the author kills off characters. He feels like it's more realistic then other fantasy series he's read. I haven't read the book, but I personally hate it when characters I'm attached to are killed off so i probably won't be reading.

Jeff wants to know who your favorite character is.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

So tell me, is it worth plugging away?

I haven't read the series and have no interest in reading it, but I've heard enough to be able say that's a matter of personal taste. The author enjoys regularly killing off characters. I can't be bothered to invest in a series where the author treats the characters like that, but there are plenty of people that enjoy it. *Shrugs.*

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

I think the author has even declared somewhere that he kind of likes killing them off, or does not mind, or something.

*Nods.* He's said he enjoys killing them off. I don't remember if I saw it in a TIME Magazine piece on the series or somewhere else, but it pretty well guaranteed that I will never read the series.

In a way, it does make the world feel more real...

I never trust talk about character death making something "real". I've seen unrealistic heavy-handed use of character death defended that way too many times. Realism is more than a matter of having someone die. Yes people die, but not everyone all the time. From what I've heard about the series it sounds to me like the author is more interested in the "drama" of a lot of character death than he is in actual realism.

[calime]

Yeah, I mostly don't trust killing charaters as a sole prop for realism either, but to be honest, actually, in this series, so far to me (as loath I may be to admit it), the deaths do make sense - I mean, they actually do advance plot and serve the story. I haven't reached the point yet where I'd feel that it is overused. It may have something to do with the fact that in most 'conventional' fantasy/sci-fi works I do feel sometimes that killing the 'redshirts' while the main characters always escape (or killing their friends etc) is a)getting old b)implausible c)disrespectful to the redshirts, it's kind of positing that some persons are more worthy of life than the others.
I do dislike killing of a beloved main character just to get a deeper reaction out of the audience, but in the case of George R.R. Martin, I'd have to admit he did not surprise me too nastily in a very late phase (like maybe some other creative minds tend to do, recently) of the story, in this universe, it's pretty much down from rather early on that no-one is immune to being killed.
Like I said, I'm not yet sure how exactly I feel about it,and it certainly does not fill the escapism niche for me, but I do admit to liking it as a work of fantasy lit nevertheless. Of course, I'm also someone that loves well-written realistic deathfics in fanfic (though they're not my comfort read, I go looking for them when I feel the need to sort of stretch myself).

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

He feels like it's more realistic...

Heh, like I said elsewhere in this thread -- I never trust talk about character death making something "real". I've seen unrealistic heavy-handed use of character death defended that way too many times. Realism is more than a matter of having someone die. Yes people die, but not everyone all the time. From what I've heard about the series it sounds to me like the author is more interested in the "drama" of a lot of character death than he is in actual realism.

...I personally hate it when characters I'm attached to are killed off so I probably won't be reading.

*Nods.* Character death is something I'm very particular about. It can be done very well. I think Boromir's death in the Lord of the Rings is an example of it being well done. But, it can also be terribly overused. I've gotten the impression directly from George R.R. Martin that he overuses character death simply because he can.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

...they actually do advance plot and serve the story.

Firstly, let me repeat something I've said elsewhere in this thread -- character death is something I'm very particular about. It can be done very well. I think Boromir's death in the Lord of the Rings is an example of it being well done. But, it can also be terribly overused. I've gotten the impression directly from George R.R. Martin that he overuses character death simply because he can.

Secondly, just as I dislike character death as a realism prop, I equally dislike it as a plot/story prop. I don't approve of a character, any character since you mentioned 'redshirts,' having their whole life be reduced to a plot device/story prop. I don't see that as realistic. For me, it too clearly shows the author's hand, and reduces the characters to chess pieces in the story rather than organic parts of the narrative.

It may have something to do with the fact that in most 'conventional' fantasy/sci-fi works I do feel sometimes that killing the 'redshirts' while the main characters always escape...

I could tolerate the only character deaths being 'redshirts' if I felt authors could consistently make clear which characters are doomed 'redshirts' versus who are the safe sacred regulars. The problem I have is that too many authors seem either inconsistent about it, or just plain poor at writing 'redshirts.' As far as I'm concerned once an author's allowed a character to grow outside of the tight little box in which 'redshirts' should stay they need to then treat the character as more than an expendable chess piece. The character's life should be valued.

I do dislike killing of a beloved main character just to get a deeper reaction out of the audience ... I'd have to admit he did not surprise me too nastily in a very late phase (like maybe some other creative minds tend to do, recently)...

*Nods.* I HATE writers that pull that stunt. I've crossed Kim Harrison off of my reading list for it, and I'm still grieving the loss of Ianto Jones on Torchwood. One of the things that has kept my anger about the treatment of Ianto Jones up is the talk of everyone dying young in the series without acknowledgment of the characters that have been brought back from the dead on the show, or of Gwen Cooper not only having protected status but having been given Rhys back in "End of Days".

...it certainly does not fill the escapism niche for me...

For me that's all I really need to hear. Ultimately I read/watch fiction to feel better. It can contain heartbreak, but in the end I want to feel better not worse. A story that kills off the wrong character, or too many characters too easily isn't a story that will make me feel better.

Of course, I'm also someone that loves well-written realistic deathfics in fanfic...

I'd say the keywords there are "well-written realistic," since I'd say a deathfic that meets those standards is one where a character may die, but they are still very much a part of the story. The story is in a way all about them. There's nothing cheap about the death.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I'm maybe old-fashioned, but I'm not sure that a naked lovescene with a nice actor makes up for the char dying soonish.)

So he dies too, huh?

I figure characters will die, but the person I saw as sort of the 'main' character. and so soon. kind of threw me.

I may read more at a later date, but I went from 'oh, I need to order the second one now!' to 'maybe I'll get it one day'.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Eddard was my favourite. And he seemed to be one of the main characters, unlike some of the others, so wasn't expecting him to die quite so soon.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'll have to think about reading the second one.

[tequilajen.livejournal.com]

I don't miss Eddard as much as I thought I would -- I too was shocked when he died, but Dave has warned me not to get too fond of anyone before I started.

My favorites are currently Arya and Jon, and they're both still kicking at the point I am in the series. I might even catch up by the time the next one is published, but they're so long I make no promises. :P

[tequilajen.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say "regularly" myself. But I'm not done yet. I will say that up to now, Eddard's is the only death that really surprised me, and some survived who I didn't expect to. (And more survive that I want dead, but that's another thread...)

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

So far no one has assured me that Arya doesn't pose as a boy, so I'm assuming she does.

I may read more of them, but they've now moved way down my 'to read' list.

[dswdiane.livejournal.com]

I love these books, and have reread all written so far several times. I really, really think that the idea that Rail Road, George R. R. Martin's nickname, enjoys killing off his character is probably due to some sort of misunderstanding of things he has said. According to Wiki, "Martin has described his penchant for killing off important characters as being necessary for the story's depth: '...when my characters are in danger, I want you to be afraid to turn the page, (so) you need to show right from the beginning that you're playing for keeps.'"

And actually by the end of the last book, the only POV character who has thus far died in the series is Eddard.

So far most of the characters I love the most including Jon, Bran, Arya, Daenerys, Tyrion, and, at this point, Jaime (who has gone through one hell of a lot of changes) are still alive. One of the things I really, really love about these books and that some characters who start out being "bad" guys, learn, grow, and change, and some of the "good" guys become bitter, vengeful, and hateful (even scary in at least one instance).

Yes, Arya only manages to escape from the capitol after her father is betrayed and executed by pretending to be a boy, but the condition of her pretense doesn't really last all that long over the course of the story. What is wrong with her posing as a boy? *looks slightly bewildered*

And what goes on with Dani (Daenerys) is absolutely riveting as the series continues. Talk about powerful, compelling female characters. Wowsers. Actually there are fair number of powerful, interesting, female characters. I especially like Brienne who is a woman who is damned determined to be a knight, and to hell with what anyone else has to say about it.

Yes, Cersei is an evil queen. She is just about one of the most self absorbed, not really very bright, insanely power mad characters I have ever encountered with few redeeming virtues.

Of course, the same can be said a more than a few of the male characters, especially Dani's brother, and Tyrion and Jaime's father, ego-maniacal bastards both.

However, it is much to my taste that many of the characters are multi-faceted and complex. For me, this is truly escapist lit because it takes me far away and involves me totally in another world where I love and adore many of the characters and sometimes grow to like characters whom I didn't like at first and come to dislike other I had originally liked. I've yet to stop loving any of the ones I loved. And yes, some of the characters I adore have died and I have been sad, but nowhere near as sad as I have been in rl in which I have had many loved ones die.

Anyway, my two cents on the series. If you don't want to read it, don't. But I think some of what is like has not been fully represented in this thread.

[lilliew.livejournal.com]

I loved Eddard alot (I figure you would have liked him too) and was majorly ticked when he died in such a fashion. But the rest of the books are really worth it. One thing I love about this series is that the characters grow and change. Some you love, you will eventually dislike, and some you hated you will begin to like. And there's often new characters that really grow on you.

It's not too cliche on many things and that's another thing I really like. There's alot of mysteries and things that are talked about in their history that sometimes and sometimes do not make sense later, and still may more to be revealed. The whole mess of all that happens in this first book unravels many threads that cause chaos across the continent.

I'd say get it and read it :)

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's just a cliche that bugs me - girl posing as a boy. It's just a thing [g]

I do think I'll read them at some point. But I don't want to repeat my Wheel of Time experience, which was the never ending series, and I finally gave up -- and I adored those books so much too.

Good to know there have been no more POV deaths though. Will keep that in mind :)

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I will at some point, but I have so many other books I need to read, I may wait till the series is finished.

Oh, but you can answer a question for me -- was Lysa responsible for her husband's poisoning? Because he was trying to take Robert away from her? It was something I was wondering last night [g]

[dswdiane.livejournal.com]

The next book in The Wheel of Time is coming out on Tuesday. This Tuesday, 10/28.

Yes, I know Jim (Robert Jordan) didn't write every last word of it. He sorta died (actually being one of those folks I have loved in rl). But his wife, Harriet, who has been an editor of Tor/St. Martins since the inception of Tor was Jim's primary and only editor, and believe me, Harriet had an enormous influence on those books. There was many a summer evening, when my family was on vacation, that we sat in Jim and Harriet's garden, drinking very good brandy after dinner, and listening to the two of them discuss and argue details about the books.

When Jim died he left copious notes and had told Harriet in detail how he wanted the story to work out. He and Harriet together had chosen who they trusted to pick up the work if Jim did die, and Harriet has edited. I trust her.

So, I will go and buy the book on Tuesday, hoping and praying that justice is done to Matt, Rand, Perrin, Nynaeve, Egwene, Elaine, Aviendha, and all the other characters I have grown to love. I really hope I won't be disappointed. I'll let you know.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I meant I gave up mid series - it was long before he died. The series never ended and I just stopped reading them. But the first ones I really enjoyed. I read the first one as fast as I could because I was visiting friends in Germany and I picked it up off their shelf and had a flight home in two days :)

Hope the last one is great for you!

[dragon-within.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the last book yet, but thoroughly enjoyed the first three. I remember being sad and surprised when he killed off Eddard, and also a little shocked by the subsequent deaths that followed, but I was still drawn into the storyline, and kept wanting to see what happened next. I'm very intrigued by the whole political structure as brothers are pit against brothers, all vying for the same thing.

The main reason why I haven't read the fourth book yet is because I just haven't been reading much lately, as it is. I do plan on reading it, although I'll probably have to reread the first three to freshen my memory.

[tequilajen.livejournal.com]

OK, having read another chunk last night, maybe I would say "regularly". Two more main characters just bit the dust rather unexpectedly.

Hmmmm.

Still, I'll probably give me mini series a try at least...