ithildin | Let it Be Noted

I offered.

ninjababe is a huge X Men fan, in fact, it was how we 'met' - she asked me to beta an XM/Forever Knight fic of hers. At that point, I knew nothing abut XM, but sure, why not? Fast forward to today, we never went to see the latest movie, and I noticed it was on PPV last night, so asked if she's like to watch it, and she said no, not right now, maybe some other day. Even with the added bonus of the guy from HEX being in it. I was even going to watch it without a trade!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Where did I read it? To tell you the truth, I don't remember. On a news site, or movie review forum, or somewhere on LJ, most likely. Now that you mention it, I remember someone saying Captain America joined later.

Thing is, and please forgive me in advance, none of those names mean anything to me. I have zero knowledge of the comic books Avenger. All I know about them comes from the current individual movies. I can live with he current member setup. I hope the movie is good and they make more. I hope they have more kick ass female characters in the future movies.

And about tokenism? I really couldn't care less. When it comes down to it, there's really just one thing I expect from a movie, and that's to entertain me. I live in what is for all intents and purposes, a third world country, with a strongly patriarchal society. There are so many things that are higher on my list of priorities that whether there are enough female superheroes doesn't even register for me.

I'd be thrilled to see an Avengers movie with the Scarlet Witch because she sound like the most interesting character from the ones you listed, but I also wouldn't be hurt if she didn't show up either. Because how do you decide which characters are the most deserving for a movie? What makes the character I prefer better than the one you do, and vice versa? I've watched so many fights in various fandoms over the title of most worthy, and writing competitions in the vein of "101 ways to kill of Name Lastname" that I back away immediately. I just don't have the time or the energy.

Don't apologize! I have stopped doing so a long time ago. I will not apologize to anyone for liking a show, a movie, a character, and I don't expect anyone who has different tastes to mine to do it either. I couldn't care less that my sister hates Iron man. I use it to tease her for not having any taste. She uses it to tease me for having awful taste. We have some favorites we share. My flist is full of people with wildly differing tastes, and I get along with all of them just fine. When you go through a war, whether someone likes some thing better than others becomes insignificant. :)

I enjoyed reading a post from a person who is passionate about their favorites. I hope she won't take it against me that they mean nothing to me, but I'm open to getting to know them in the future. :)

On a news site, or movie review forum, or somewhere on LJ, most likely.

Ah, probably from someone who really didn't know, or care, about the history then.

Thing is, and please forgive me in advance, none of those names mean anything to me. ... All I know about them comes from the current individual movies.

No problem. It isn't your fault you don't know them. It's the people who've made "the current individual movies" who have been avoiding those classic Avengers heroines fault.

I can live with the current member setup.

I'll probably skip The Avengers movie. I've skipped Thor, and Cap's movie. I thought it was lazy casting using the same actor who played Johnny Storm as Cap. I'll likely wait for Ironman 3 to see Tony again. Not sure if I'll see Thor eventually.

And about tokenism? I really couldn't care less.

I care. I hate that since Hollywood handled the Elektra and Catwoman movies badly they seem to have abandoned bothering to try to do super heroine movies. I mean while the Avengers does at least have a female character, she didn't have a movie of her own like Ironman, et al. She's clearly a second class character, and given that she's one without superpowers (unlike Wasp and the Scarlet Witch), it seems pretty obvious to me that she's mainly there to add some feminine curves.

...there's really just one thing I expect from a movie, and that's to entertain me.

What I want most from a movie is entertainment. I love X-Men: First Class, and it has serious flaws when it comes to its handling of gender and race. I'm just not prepared to pretend as if those flaws aren't there, or to say they don't impact how much I enjoy it. I love XM:FC, but I won't pretend it couldn't be better. I expect the Avengers movie will be okay. It has some good people both behind the camera in the person of Joss Whedon, and in front with a number of the actors. It just isn't appealing to me.

There are so many things that are higher on my list of priorities that whether there are enough female superheroes doesn't even register for me.

I won't pretend to imagine what your life is like. I've lived my whole life in the US. I'm just sure that "whether there are enough female superheroes" does make a difference in some places because it does say to some people that all a girl can dream of is being "the token chick." She can't be equal on an individual level, the token chick didn't get a movie of her own, and they can't be equal in the team because there is only one girl on the team. It's sexist, and that's wrong, even it's "only a movie." It still matters.

Because how do you decide which characters are the most deserving for a movie?

As much as Black Widow would never have been my first, second, or even third choice for "the token chick" (if I'd had to choose one woman to be marginalized like that), what I really care about is how sexist having one token chick is. It isn't about "which characters are the most deserving" or "What makes the character I prefer better than the one you do, and vice versa?" It's simply about equality.

I've watched so many fights in various fandoms over the title of most worthy, and writing competitions in the vein of "101 ways to kill of Name Lastname" that I back away immediately.

I try hard to not hate a character, unless it's a villain you're suppose to hate, and I know sometimes I fail. I hate Gwen Cooper in Torchwood. I don't hate Black Widow. If I've come across sounding like I do, it isn't intentional. In and of herself she's a fine character. What I hate is that they could have done more with her than they have, and they could be doing more with the Avengers than they are. It isn't that she's bad. It's that she isn't enough for me.

Don't apologize!

*Blushes.* Thanks!

I hope she won't take it against me that they mean nothing to me, but I'm open to getting to know them in the future. :)

I promise I won't take it against you. It isn't your fault. I'm glad you're open to getting to know them. I just wish someone in Hollywood seemed open to telling their stories.

Edited Date: 2011-10-03 08:08 pm (UTC)

I thought it was lazy casting using the same actor who played Johnny Storm as Cap.

I on the other hand can't have enough of Chris Evans in my movies. His casting as Captain doesn't bother me. I'd love it if they made a second Losers movie, and have it crossover with Avengers and have Jensen be a descendant or some such. :glee:

I think it's safe to say there isn't a movie in existence that couldn't be improved in some way, whether because they fail on gender or race or whatever. I'm aware of those issues. I know they exist. It's just that in a larger scheme of things here they are not issues that are high on our list of priorities. For us more volatile issues are questions of religion (I'm Muslim, by the way) and ethnic affiliation.

Maybe it's good Hollywood's not bothering to make such movies anymore, if those are the results we can expect. They're all about making money (preferably huge amounts). They're not interested in progression and innovation, except maybe on a technical level. Just look at the amount of adaptations and remakes and re-imaginings and sequels. The last thing I expect from Hollywood is to be enlightened. Perhaps there will be other studios who will be willing to make a really good movie about the struggles of a superheroine.

One thing we've always found interesting (and sometimes annoying) about Americans is that you guys seem so... flashy? I guess? So gung-ho about everything; you want everything right now, you want change to happen right away. We go about it very slowly. So, Like I said, I live in a very patriarchal society, but I can see changes happening around me every day. I teach academic writing at a university, and I have various groups in my classes: computer science, information systems, economics, political science... Every year there are more and more girls. In some groups the percentage is 60:40 in favor of girls. Most of our instructors are women who hold PhDs. we go about our jobs, making connections, and then we have guests from the US who immediately go, You must demand this! You must ask for that! and we know such attitude would NEVER work here. So we say, Yes of course, and go about our business again when they go home.

I try hard to not hate a character
Oh I don't bother trying not to hate a character! I have plenty of them I hate, LOL. What I do is try to never say that in public. The farthest I go is, I'm not very interested in character such and such, but I mostly just avoid saying even that because I know there's someone out there who probably loves them, and to whom that particular character means a lot. (Unless I'm particularly riled, but that happens very rarely.) All I have to do is think about how I felt when someone bashed my favorites and it's usually enough to make me keep my mouth shut.

I feel like I've rambled a lot! :D I'm willing to have a go at many things, why not? Life is too short and bitter not to try to take whatever enjoyment you can out of it. In the end I'll leave you with a quote from one of my faves, a fellow named Darien Fawkes: "I believe the glass is half full. Unfortunately, it is filled with blood."