'The Modern Prometheus'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the sixteenth installment of Methos Episode Discussion. You can find the last one, for Forgive Us Our Trespasses here. All prior episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

The Modern Prometheus, Air Date: May 1997

Lord Byron, the brilliant Romantic poet, is alive and well and living the decadent life of a rock star. He lives life way over the edge and has taken some promising young musicians over the edge with him. When following in Byron's footsteps tragically ends the life of Dawson's protege, MacLeod is faced with a decision -- is the beauty and genius that is Byron worth the cost? ~ recap and quotes via tv.com

Quotes below the curtain





Duncan: Duncan: Cut the crap - Mike is dead because of him.
Methos: No, Mike is dead because of Mike.
Duncan: The kid idolized him. Maybe he didn't pull the trigger but he sure as hell put the gun in his hand. "To live like me you have to be like me." Come on, Methos, Mike couldn't do that, he wasn't Immortal.
Methos: And that is not Byron's fault
________________________

Byron: My task is done. My song has ceased. My theme has died into an echo...it is fit.
________________________

Byron: Would you rather have a tombstone that says "he lived for centuries', or one that says 'for centuries, he was alive"?
Methos: You're not listening to me - I don't want a tombstone.
________________________






Next up will be Indiscretions aka The Methos & Joe Show 'Archangel'.

Comments

[enchantersnight.livejournal.com]

Is it weird to like byron in the past and not in the here and now? As that what happened to me. I quite enjoyed him and Methos in the past (what was up with that goat!) but not at all in present day.

Another episode with insights into Methos (how close was he to Byron?) and very enjoyable for a Mary Shelly fan like me.

Some of those flashbacks were very risque I liked that :)

OT: Browsing tv channels over the weekend discovered HL on FX and watched with great enjoyment Epitaph for Tommy and Run for Your Life. I loved Duncan saving Carl in the latter from getting hanged and getting shot himself for his troubles.

Will keep a look out on the schedules from now on.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Lots of interesting things in this ep. but I'll start with Methos choosing Duncan over his former student, friend, orgy partner [g] Byron.

Then there's the fact that Duncan is still judging people and so soon after FUOT. Yeah, Byron was a loser, but Methos was right, he didn't kill Mike. If stupidity were a crime... Heh.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

(what was up with that goat!)

Baaaaaaaa means 'no'! [g]

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, am I going to get into this. I liked Byron and I liked Duncan and I loved Methos in this.

Okay, to start I felt very sorry for Byron. He was sad. He should have never been immortal. There was no way he could maintain that much drama and fill that much need for centuries. And inside where it counted, he was already dying.

Mike - that stupid young man was responsible for his own decisions. He was an adult and Joe was trying to help him. And basically, he told Joe where to get off.

*But* - and here is the thing - Byron used people's weaknesses against them - knowing they would self destruct just like he did. The only difference - they didn't get up and go on living afterward. And in the present - that is how Byron fed his need for Immortality. Not with his poetry - not with his passion. But by watching others self-destruct and knowing he would go on when they didn't.

Duncan - yes he judged. But something Duncan could never tolerate was an Immortal usiing their immortality to bring harm to others. And I think it was only because Byron was Methos' former friend and lover - that Duncan backed off long enough to issue a warning.

And Byron - was he trying to commit suicide or was this the ultimate test of self-destruction - this time with someone who had just as much chance of getting up as he did afterward. But if he killed MacLeod and continued to live after that challenge - was that the next level of high - one he was no longer obtaining with the Mikes of the world. Then what? Become a hunter - taking bigger risks until finally he lost?

I tend to cut Duncan some slack here. He truly cares about people and he didn't want to hurt Methos.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Part Two:

But then there is *this* side of the coin. No matter what you think of Duncan's and Methos' relationship - if you think they were just friends - or if you *know* they were lovers because they were *g* -

was there not a certain amount of jealousy in that entire scenerio - on both Duncan's and Byron's part? Byron started yanking Duncan's chain almost immediately. And Duncan became very possessive of Methos at that point. Maybe he couldn't beat his chest and grab Methos and yell "mine" - but he could show his possessive in other ways - such as including Mike under his protection and letting Byron know that what Duncan held dear was off limits in no uncertain terms.

Was he substituting Mike in the equation to get to Byron? Knowing Methos wouldn't allow it if it were about him?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I'm very fond of this episode just because there are so many things happening. I don't necessarily blame Duncan for judging Byron, after all, it was a fair challenge as far as the "Rules" go and all. It's more along the lines of finding it interesting placed along side the last ep we'd seen Methos in.

And that's about as coherent as I get this morning in between yawns :)

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Part Three:

And just remember when you notice all the undercurrents of jealousy and anger -

lovers and passion

Adrian directed this episode. He put everyone of those little moments in there. And he knew exactly what he was doing. There is a vid and gosh durn it, I don't remember the name - but it was great and it showed that scene in the bar and the song goes on about warning one another off. It is very cool.

P.s. did you notice that when they are at the bar, Duncan is sitting across the table from Methos? But after he meets Byron, he scoots right up next to him to sit?

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

heh, you're going to stop letting me post here. I get a bit long winded. You're right though. This show is right after FUOT. But I wonder how long it was supposed to be in their time between happening?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I finish posting a response and there's a part two!!

You've brought up something I was going to, but hadn't got my brain sufficiently in gear to do so. You know when you have something you want to say right on the tip of your brain, and can't quite get it out right? That's me right now.

I'm going to think about it some more and try and see if I can do better in a bit :)

One thing though I think is related -- when Byron greets Methos as "Doc" in the nightclub and is thrilled to see him. That's where it all seems to start. As if it hadn't quite occured to Duncan that Methos wasn't exlcusivly his friend. That Methos had a life before he met Mac with relationships that were important to him. It was almost as if Duncan were suddenly seeing Methos in a different light. Not Adam Pierson, not the Methos he thought he knew.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Three parts! I need more sleep to keep up with you :)

heh, you're going to stop letting me post here.

Hah! Not likely. I keep checking my email to see if you've commented yet [g]

The Bounds of Decency

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

The Bounds of Decency

While I'm pondering Pat's three parter [g], I did want to mention the flashback. First off the shallow bit: Methos in breeches! Okay, now on to the serious bit.

If anyone still had any questions as to if Methos had really changed, I think this is as good an example as any that he had. First off, he's genuinely gentle and caring with Mary. Talk about bedside manner! Then we get to the bedroom scene, where Byron is all for a threesome with the defenseless Mary. Methos is the one to put the brakes on, to remind Byron of decency, and basically takes on the role of Mary's protector. And all this on his own, without the influence of Duncan.

I absolutely adore the flashbacks in this episode. So much more of Methos is revealed, so many more reasons to love him :)

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Methos choosing Duncan over his former student, friend, orgy partner [g] Byron.

*nods* There are a lot of things Methos could have done to save Byron - not the least shoot him and hide him from Duncan - but he didn't. I think this is partly a recognition of how Byron ad seemed to really give up on life, how he couldn't change. But I also think that Methos didn't want to risk Duncan's friendship again. In this episode, Methos is left with no good choices.

Re: The Bounds of Decency

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. *smiles* I do like that flashback a lot - Methos seems geniunely happy, and it's a pleasure to see him that way, after the heartbrokeness of Bordeaux. And he does take on the role of protector here - both for Mary and Byron. He's a stabilizing influence, able to curb the worst of Byron's tendencies. A hell of a long way from Death.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

I usually don't see Duncan as the evil judgemental one that others do, but here I have to agree. Mike made choices. Byron was guilty of being a bad influence and a major ass, but Mike and the other guy were adults, capable of making their own bad decisions. Which they did.

Yes, mortals were being harmed. Yes, the things Byron goaded them to do were things mortals couldn't survive. But I believe Duncan chose to solve a problem with violence that could have been handled differently. In this case, as hard as it would be to do, the choice could have been to do nothing. Mortals aren't children, they have to be allowed to make their own mistakes, even if those mistakes get them killed.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

hmm. I've always seen the jealousy more on Byron's side than Duncan's. Duncan looks perplexed at Byron's reaction in the first scene. JMO.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

Duncan - yes he judged. But something Duncan could never tolerate was an Immortal usiing their immortality to bring harm to others. And I think it was only because Byron was Methos' former friend and lover - that Duncan backed off long enough to issue a warning.

This is a key. Duncan will let mortals get away with the same kind of behavior that he condemns immortals for. He seems to hold them to a different standard. Maybe for good reason. This reminds me of his choice to fight Tommy. Do you think Duncan would kill a mortal who behaved the way Byron did? Yes, mortals are more subject to the consequences of the law. But Duncan can be very inconsistent with his "code"... the key for me is whether mortals were harmed. In most cases where they were, he judges the immortal worthy of death. If the victim is another immortal he's less likely to do so (as in the case of Warren Cochran).

Of course, I'm making this point with a limited memory of the series as a whole. Still need to re-watch from the beginnning.

Re: The Bounds of Decency

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

the thing that always grabs me in the flashbacks is that Methos, while participating, also seems to hold himself at a slight distance, like he's observing things. Just a bit detached. It's a nice bit of acting on PW's part.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

what do you think of that last scene at Joe's bar? It makes a lot more sense if you see the short cut scene where matter and antimatter were mentioned. But I've always been struck by the moment where Duncan enters, stops at the threshold, and by JOe and Methos' reactions.

Joe really interests me most, as Methos' reaction is understandable. He's not ready to face Duncan yet, literally turning away.

But Joe - Joe doesn't look pleased. Relieved that Duncan's alive, perhaps, but not pleased. Joe knows the extent of what's been lost by both deaths. Note that Joe never asked for Byron's death. Didn't ask Duncan to get involved. He wasn't happy with what Byron did, his sick games with Mike, but I go the impression he knew down deep that in the end what happened to Mike was up to Mike. I also felt that he was as disappointed in Mike as he was upset at his death. Mike didn't live up to his potential. Mike failed to make the smart choice. And in the end he paid for that.

[kethali.livejournal.com]

This has got to be one of my favorite Duncan episodes of all times. Why? Because of all these things the others already mentioned--jealousy (whether the grounds for it are romantic in nature or not); tendency to judge too quickly and resort to unnecessary violence; a certain amount of hypocrisy (holding Immortals to a different moral standard than the one applying to mortals); and just plain lack of compassion toward Methos. All this paints Duncan as flawed, and it's good to see the hero come across like that every so often. Makes him more real and thus more appealing, at least to me.

Re: The Bounds of Decency

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Despite his words, he is much more of a specatator than a participant.

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

Highlander is on FX now!? What times? Is it on daily?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

FX UK, not the FX here. But, if you're in the UK, it airs at 10am :)

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

People always tell me that the whole notion of "Judgmental Duncan" comes from the Horsemen eps - but this is actually the only episode where I find Duncan truly judgmental.

Basically, I am a firm believer that adults - even young adults - make their own choices and have to live and die by them. Nobody forced Byron's life style on Mike. Mac should have minded his own business and stayed out of this.

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

Oh, I was getting my hopes up....sigh. Thanks for the info.

[carenejeans.livejournal.com]

I don't think Duncan is overly judgemental in this ep. Byron isn't just a "loser," and he's a lot more than a "bad influence" on Mike. He lures Mike to his death, just as he lures the guy at the beginning to jump. Bryon can't die, but he can take a suicidal plunge alongside someone who will *not* walk away afterwards.

It's interesting to compare him to Gregor in "Studies In Light" -- he's also suicidal, also hates his immortality, and also wants to get close to mortals' deaths, but he only uses a camera. It's sick and creepy, but he doesn't *kill* people. So, in the end, Duncan spares him (and "saves" him as well). Byron is too far gone down the path to self-destruction, and instead of erm, falling on his own sword, he commits suicide by proxy. He *does* kill people.

He's also reckless -- part it's arrogance, but a lot of it's desperation. The scene on the rooftop where Byron's hanging on to the pole and screaming for the lightning to come and get him is telling, I think.

And the lighting does come -- in the form of Duncan.