Blast!

[ithildin]

I can't use 'Plain Jane' or 'Snowballs' chance in hell'. Plain Jane is from 1910, and Snowball's is from 1931. Real bummer too, since those are the sorts of expressions you can just imagine Grisham using.

[sighs dramatically]

(and totally unrelated: where is everyone today?)

Comments

[mzlizzy.livejournal.com]

yeah, up and moving *without* pain killers and able to get dressed by himself too!

It may be a published book, but it reminds me of mediocre fanfic, just enough plot to keep you reading, but not enough for you to recommend it to anyone.

If you need help on fashion stuff just let me know what year and location -- I'm a costume historian!

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Now I know who to bug!

Two questions that have been gnawing at me... [g]

1818ish, would women's fashion be fairly standard between London/Paris/Madrid/New York? Or would a woman in Madrid be wearing something drastically different than a woman in London?

And second, from some of the sites I've come across that deal with historic fashion, it seems that the women in the TV show itself are dressed generally in clothes that are 15-20 years ahead of their time. If I'm gathering correctly, while waists had dropped a little by 1818, they still were fairly high compared to later when they dropped back to around a natural waist with the really wide skirts. What I always think of as Pride and Prejudice dresses with the high waist and narrower skirts.

(this (http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/reg5.html) was one of the sites I was looking at)

I swear I'll try not and bug you too much!

[mzlizzy.livejournal.com]

The Regency/Empire style (depending on your definition) had a lot of differences from country to country, in part because the French started it to show that they were different from the 'Ancient Regime' and some people were more radical in fashion than others. By 1818 Bonaparte is safely locked up on Elba, so more people were willing to ape French fashions once more.

London was closest to Paris in Fashion, New York would have been a few months to a year or so behind in fashion due to the travel lag. I'm not sure about Madrid, they were very conservative before the wars, but they may have changed after Bonaparte's defeat. I do know that the Portuguese court was still wearing the side hoops when the French ambassador came on behalf of Bonaparte. (I have a autobiography from the wife of the ambassador.)

One of the best books for the period is Cunnington's "English Women's Clothing in the Nineteenth Century: A Comprehensive Guide with 1,117 Illustrations" (Available on Amazon and elsewhere).

The waist has started to head back down the body, but isn't more than a few inches below what we think of as the bra-line.
More and more decoration is being added to dresses and very few wear plain white anymore with colors changing with the season. The fabrics are Silk, Wool, Cotton, Linen or mixtures of the same with metal or other furs mixed in.

The site you were looking at is a good one, but my favorite for research is the Costumers Manifesto at www.costumes.org. It's a well organized compressive links page with lots and lots of pictures. It is run by the woman who is in charge of the Theater Costume Program at a University in Alaska.

Oh, and always remember NO Respectable woman of any station traveled without at least a maid!

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Thank you :)

One of my quibbles with Queen of Swords was the women wandering around unchaperoned/unaccompanied. Especially since my impression was the Spanish were real sticklers for that sort of thing.

Another case of balancing the universe of the show with the real world.

I'm trying to decide if a man in Doctor Helm's position would arrange for a maid for his sister as a matter of course or not. He seemed to have a very low opinion of the upper classes during the course of the series, even though it's his own background. Though it might be a matter of doing what's proper for a female relative as opposed to what he'd do for himself.

Yes, I'm conflicted! [g]

[mzlizzy.livejournal.com]

The Spanish were very proper in Spain, but if you look at letters of the period you'll see that they didn't expect the same sort of behavior away from Court.

Tessa keeps her respectability because of having Marta there to be her maid/chaperon, and when she's in public she is often in the company of married women who, regardless of their age, are de facto chaperons. She is also never alone with a man who's reputation would put her at risk.

While Dr. Helm lives alone it would be perfectly consistent with his character for him to have a local woman come in and clean for him, and do his laundry. Even if he is capable of taking care of himself this is a way for him to help out at least one individual without it being outright charity.

I'd have him insisting that his sister have a maid both for respectability and as a way to help out a local girl. His sister might see it as a drain on his pocket as well as a leash on her behavior and so argue against it.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

There was an essay I came across a few weeks back called Women and Power in Alta California. It mentioned how shocked men coming form Europe were to see women riding like men and herding cattle on their ranches. Women in the west in general had more freedom than their counterparts in more 'civilized' areas.

[mzlizzy.livejournal.com]

Exactly why some women preferred the freedom of the 'uncivilized' areas -- not nearly as many constraints on their behavior!

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I'd be there! My great grandmother was the first white woman to settle in the Bulkley Valley area of Northern B.C., so I hope I'd be as daring as she was in similar circumstances [g]

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Would it be all right if I emailed you? I have a couple of fairly detailed questions I'd like to ask :)

[mzlizzy.livejournal.com]

Sure, write to me at lizzziegrl at yahoo and I'll write you back.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks :) When I'm actually awake tomorrow, I shall pester you :)