'Indiscretions'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the eighteenth installment of Methos Episode Discussion. You can find the last one, for Archangel here. All prior episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

Indiscretions, Air Date: May 1998

Methos and Joe Dawson join forces when past indiscretions threaten their lives-- and loved ones-- in the present. Morgan Walker has been nursing a grudge against Methos for two hundred years, and now he may finally get the chance to take his revenge... by kidnapping Joe's daughter. ~ recap and quotes via tv.com

Quotes below the curtain





Walker: I've waited almost two hundred years for this.
Methos: Do the words 'obsessive-compulsive' mean anything to you?
________________________

Joe: You have to turn the car around.
Methos: Why?
Joe: You're going the wrong way!
Methos: I beg to disagree, the bullets are back that way!
________________________

Methos: Just because I don't like to fight doesn't mean I can't.
________________________

Methos: Joe, we actually make a really good team. We could be like Scully and Mulder.
Joe: Yeah, right.
Methos: Sipowitz and Simone.
Joe: Whatever.
Methos: Caligula and Incutatis. No, maybe not Incutatis, cause he was a horse...
Joe: Will you shut up!
________________________

Joe: Just cause you couldn't keep it in your pants two hundred years ago, you expect me to turn over the Chronicles.
Methos: That was the basic idea, yes.
________________________






Please take a moment, if you haven't already, to vote for which season one episodes you'd like to discuss during the next round. Vote early, vote often :)

Next up will be To Be/Not to Be. Look for it next week.

Comments

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

well, I'm awake, and not going to work right away (there seems to be no phones or internet there, and lots of water everywhere) so hey, here I am!

I love this episode. I think it has some flaws, mostly in the camera work (weird places where it was like they didn't cover both actors during the scene the way they normally do). BUt the Methos and Joe interaction more than makes up for it.

Favorite moments: Snarky!Methos (nearly the whole ep). Wistful!Joe. THe scene where Methos cooly takes out the two thugs with trickery.

Then there's the ever popular question of just where Methos went when he was "there, mostly."

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

I too love that Methos and Joe interactions. I also like the way Methos can be really hardcore when he wants to be - when he decides he has to get to Walker and take him down, he does so, very quickyl and efficently. As I told lemurgrrrl, I was unhappy about the curious eliding of Charlotte and her fate in the episode, but overall it's one of my favourites.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Then there's the ever popular question of just where Methos went when he was "there, mostly."

Oh, yes, THAT question! *looks inquiringly at Methos, who shrugs*

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

THe scene where Methos cooly takes out the two thugs with trickery.

Yes, I love that. My favorite moment is when he appears ready to surrender to one of them because he is "out of bullets," and then shoots him.

So Methos. So great.

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm still annoyed by that, but I realize that one of the great things about Methos as a character is that he is flawed. He is not entirely likable. That's a risky thing to make a popular tv character, but they've done it with him.

The fact that he leaves Charlotte there when he *knows* Walker must have sensed Immortal presence, because he sensed Walker's, bothers me. But it is very much in character, and totally makes sense.

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

Walker: I've waited almost two hundred years for this.
Methos: Do the words 'obsessive-compulsive' mean anything to you?

There are so many great lines in this ep--I think that's what I like most about it. Lots of funny.

Also, the flashback. We get so few of Methos's memories in the series, it's a real treat when we get one.

Oh, you know that bit about how he wishes he were at 35,000 feet, waiting for the flight attendant to come plump his pillow? I like to imagine he'd be going to London. :-)

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Oh wow! Indiscretions. Whose?

First - on that first quote - What Methos actually says is " Do the words compulsive - obssessive" mean anything to you? He says it backwards. Which always tickles me. I don't know what order they shot those scenes in, but in that first scene when he sees Walker, Methos eyes are all puffy and basically he looks like shit. Peter has said that he went out drinking that night and got about 30 minutes sleep. And admits that he was looking rather the worse for wear. So I wonder if that scene where he says the quote backwards was done the same day.

Secondly, we have talked about the Charlotte scene before and someone brought up the excellent point that the reason Methos didn't stay to fight Walker is because there was nothing he could do to save Charlotte. It was a mute point and Methos wasn't in the habit of sticking his neck out for lost causes. He's a pragmatist.

Further - I tend to look on the scene a bit more objectively. Charlotte knew Morgan Walker. She knew his temper and she knew where she stood with him. *She's* the one that came on to Bejamin. He was taking her word that Walker wouldn't be back. If anything Benjamin was the one given the wrong information and put at unnecessary risk. He was only going by her word. And she was very smooth. I don't think this was the first man she had seduced into Walker's bed while he was away. Not that I'm saying she deserved to be beaten or killed by any means. But she knew what kind of man he was and she went into the situation with full knowledge and with her eyes wide open. Why should Benjamin risk his life at that point? She belonged to Walker and during that time - he did not have the law on his side to intervene. Not to mention the Immortal factor.

Next - I love the scene in the warehouse. I love the interaction between Joe and Methos. I love the fact that the second Methos knows that Amy means something to Joe and why - it's a whole different situation. His demeaner instantly changes and he's no longer the sarcastic side-kick. He's instantly a predator and he's doing everything in his power to take care of those he loves. In this case Joe.

Which also goes back to Charlotte. He obviously thinks she's sexy and willingly used what she just as willingly offered (and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided). But he didn't love her. He wasn't emotionally attached to her. Methos takes care of himself and those he loves. Period.

I also like the way that Methos sets Joe up - knowing full well that Joe is leading him into a trap. And he understands and doesn't hold it against him. I love the fact that Methos cares. And that he did take care of Walker so easily.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree it's in character - it just annoys me because *everybody* seems to either ignore Charlotte or use her as an excuse.

I do love this episode - Methos and Joe are very easy with each other, and it reminds me that they probably knew each other for years before Joe found out "Adam" was Methos. ^_^

I agree with all Pat said

[enchantersnight.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of your post Pat! especially

(and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided)

oh yes I could cope with that! (maybe not the dying afterward but heh)

I loved this episode so much I can not find enough words, so many things wonderful in it (The Methos and Joe Show totally should have been picked up by a TV station!)

Joe: You have to turn the car around.
Methos: Why?
Joe: You're going the wrong way!
Methos: I beg to disagree, the bullets are back that way!

Joe: You know, the Chronicles are not your personal Rolodex. You find another way to hunt him.

Methos: Hunt?! I don't want to hunt him!

and the hitch-hiking?
Joe: Let me try
Methos: [steps aside] Yeah, sure. They won't stop for me but they'll stop for you. Of course, they will.
Joe: [grins and licks thumb] Observe and record.
[Joe sticks his thumb out. A van immediately slows and stops. Joe laughs.]
These guys should get to do more comedy
OK so the drivers were all blind? come on who would not want to stop for these two guys!

Hmm reading quotes on methos.org think I will go dream a while :)

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

I do love this episode - Methos and Joe are very easy with each other, and it reminds me that they probably knew each other for years before Joe found out "Adam" was Methos. ^_^

Yes, doesn't Jim Byrnes say something to this effect in the commentary? I always find it a bit jarring when reading a piece of fanfic that refers to them as friends from way back or drinking buddies or whatever, maybe because I can't wrap my head around the logistics of it all (did Joe split his time between Paris and Seacouver for years and years? I guess as Duncan's watcher he would have). In that case, yeah, he probably would have hung out with Adam quite a bit.

I think it's interesting to know the backstories the actors give their characters that, while maybe never making it explicitly onscreen, come across in the way they relate to each other.

In the case of Joe and Methos, there would be easy familiarity, but also some resentment on Joe's part because of Methos's lying about his identity all that time, and also some awe at being in the presence of such an old guy.

On Methos's part, there seems to be fierce loyalty, as Pat mentions below. He protects the people he cares about, and Joe is one of those people.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

In the case of Joe and Methos, there would be easy familiarity, but also some resentment on Joe's part because of Methos's lying about his identity all that time, and also some awe at being in the presence of such an old guy.

*nods* I think it must be difficult for Joe at times - he knows it's Methos, but sometimes I think he responds to "Adam" instead. I love the part in "Judgement Day", where "Adam" defends Joes's friendship with MacLeod, and Joe whispers to Duncan: "Pierson for the defense. Perfect." It's a bit sarcastic, but also affectionate and grateful.

On Methos's part, there seems to be fierce loyalty, as Pat mentions below. He protects the people he cares about, and Joe is one of those people.

Yes, yes, yes.

For all these reasons, I quite like the Methos/Joe pairing - they really do seem to work well together and geniunely care about each other.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

Next - I love the scene in the warehouse. I love the interaction between Joe and Methos. I love the fact that the second Methos knows that Amy means something to Joe and why - it's a whole different situation. His demeaner instantly changes and he's no longer the sarcastic side-kick. He's instantly a predator and he's doing everything in his power to take care of those he loves. In this case Joe.

You noticed that too? Yeah, it's great acting/directing/writing, or a combination of all of the above. That bit gave me oodles of insight into his character.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

I'm a dork, replying to my own post. But a thought : I like the comparison of the way Methos takes out the thugs with the way Duncan would have. Duncan has been known to take pleasure in the hunt/fight with evil thugs, but he's not as... detached about it. it's an interesting juxtaposition.

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

he knows it's Methos, but sometimes I think he responds to "Adam" instead. I love the part in "Judgement Day", where "Adam" defends Joes's friendship with MacLeod, and Joe whispers to Duncan: "Pierson for the defense. Perfect." It's a bit sarcastic, but also affectionate and grateful.

That's a good example.

Another one that comes to mind is in "Finale," when they're walking away from Christine's house after Methos has cut himself to show her he's Immortal. Joe is obviously still getting used to the fact that his friend Adam is actually Methos the Aged Immortal. He doesn't yet know what to expect from him, and expects more than Methos can offer. "I'm just a guy," Methos says.

By the time of "The Messenger," Joe is perhaps more comfortable with who Methos is. He no longer expects great wisdom from him.

Actually, it's interesting to think of all their scenes together in the context of this new (to Joe) information, and how he responds and adapts to it over time.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Then there's the ever popular question of just where Methos went when he was "there, mostly."

Traning dolphins at Seaworld :)

(I'm back! Dead computer most of the day)

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I just love this episode. When I ask the question, "Want to watch Highlander ep?" Nin always says, "Yes! The Methos and Joe show!". It gets watched a lot in our home.

Methos taking out the bad guys, especially the 'you're out of bullets' guy. The look in his eyes. Then him drawing Joe in, knowing that Joe's lying, till Joe finally confesses. And the whole lead up to that about what a great team they make. And one of my all time fave Methos lines : I'm easily amused. [g] That weird thing you do with your face... Hah!

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

This is the HL epi I watch the most often too - Methos is just so Methosian in it - you gotta love a guy who wins against the baddies by being tricksy. This tricksyness is most likely a major reason that Methos has survived for so long. And all his interactions with Joe are perfect - Peter and Jim just have "it". This epi also always makes me wistful because I so wanted the Methos and Joe spin-off - and instead we got The Raven, which was just not a good show.

Re: I agree with all Pat said

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

"(and remember - she got *his* body and loving out of the deal so it wasn't one-sided)"

Did anyone find it strange that they went to bed in the same room where he was treating what appeared to be sick child? I mean they walk over a few feet and wham!, she comes on to him, he responses and they are getting naked.

Okay, he wear the blue boxers - did they have blue boxers in 1808?, but it was just kinda weird. Methos wont do a threesome with Mary Shelly but he will have sex with a child in the room?

The leaving her part, no problem with that, Walker could not be sure the immortal was in his bed, just in the area so I figure Methos never really expected Walker to kill her.

Roberta

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

"Methos and Joe are very easy with each other, "

Actually why was Joe so angry at the beginning of the episode when he finds Methos snooping. I mean, Methos always disappears, he is a big snoop, beer swiping, lay about that we all love, so what was different this time? Joe did not know Amy was kidnapped at that point. Did not quite get the animosity at the beginning.

Roberta

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Because the last time he saw him was in "Archangel".

[robi-travels.livejournal.com]

Well yes, but I found that annoying, since almost all of season six was sans Methos and he actually got permanent billing in the credits, not guest star status - so what was up with that?

But, Methos disappears and Joe should know better, it just seemed weird. I would have expected Joe to chew him out then say something like - Don't do it again!, the way a parent would to a child, since "Adam" can be so adolescent at times.

Roberta

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Peter was doing Noah's Ark at the time, and couldn't do Highlander, but they never explained where he was, he was just gone. Joe was left all alone to deal with the aftermath of Richie's death.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it had a definite 'what if' quality :) If I had a nickel for everytime it was said that Methos couldn't carry his own series, I'd be fairly comfortable now [g] I never bought that, and this episode just proves to me that it really could have worked.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I wish I'd posted this yesterday when people were still here commenting, but what the heck :)

Something that had occurred to me, and then been forgotten, and now remembered again. Methos knew Morgan was an Immortal, and since he was a practicing doctor and around and about town, I'm assuming he and Morgan had at least run into each other from time to time. So did they have a 'live and let live' sort of arrangement? Was Walker an Immortal not much interested in playing 'the Game', and just wanted to live his life, such as it was, in peace? I can't see Methos hanging his hat in a town with a challange happy immie in residence.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

I don't think Methos was exactly detached. The look in his eyes when he took out this second thug - he loved it to bits! It was then when the idea that he doesn't fight because he enjoys it too much hit me.