'Forgive Us Our Trespasses'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the fifteenth installment of Methos Episode Discussion. You can find the last one, for CaH & R6:8 here. All prior episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

Forgive Us Our Trespasses, Air Date: May 1997

After the Scottish massacre at the Battle of Culloden in 1746, Duncan MacLeod was a man possessed, obsessed, with killing the English bastards who had destroyed his people. Now Immortal Steven Keane has come to make MacLeod pay for his murderous crimes. Amanda urges MacLeod to take Keane's head and be done with it, but in his heart MacLeod knows that Keane is right -- he is a murderer -- and that Keane is judging him just like MacLeod has judged so many others. ~ recap and quotes via tv.com

Quotes below the curtain





Duncan: You should write fortune cookies.
Methos: Yeah? Maybe I should, just so long as I'm not writing your epitaph.
________________________

Methos: I just came by to watch the perfect Immortal die.
Duncan: I'm not!
Methos: Not what? Not the perfect Immortal or not gonna die?
________________________

Amanda: Duncan, you're the best man I know. You make people better, you know - people like me, people who didn't give a damn about anything in their whole lives until you came along with your big brown eyes and your boyscout rules.
________________________

Amanda: Methos. Open the door. I know you're there. Methos! Methos, it's Amanda!
Methos: Do you want to knock a bit louder? I don't think they heard you in Philadelphia!
________________________

Methos: (to Duncan) You wanted to kill; you killed them. You know, Keane is just like you; he wants to divide the world up into good and bad. Well, it's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil. We have rage and compassion. We have love and hate. Murder and forgiveness. Why don't you try forgiving yourself for once.
________________________

Duncan It's Tuesday. He doesn't take heads on Tuesdays.






Next up will be The Modern Prometheus. Look for it next week.

Comments

Re: Why?

[unovis-lj.livejournal.com]

It doesn't seem that odd to me. From Methos's point of view, as usual, Duncan's behaving rashly. Based on his code of honor, he's about to do something Methos and Amanda think is stupid, and Methos steps in almost from exasperation. He can't talk Duncan out of the fight, he can't talk Keane out of the fight. Possibly he's aware of Keane's level of skill and Keane's own idea of a fair fight -- he uses an unexpected feint and pulls a second weapon to kill him, which Keane complained about. If Duncan hadn't interrupted, taking Keane's head would have been a sharp practical application of Methos's advice and quite unapologetic, almost hostile. Screw you, you pain in the ass. I saved you, anyway.

I don't see Duncan treating Methos badly. He's slowly getting over his disillusionment and anger. He doesn't like the kind of advice Methos gives, repeatedly, and prefers to solve the problem according to his own lights. They're both pissed off at each other but keeping the friendship alive.

Re: Why?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Screw you, you pain in the ass. I saved you, anyway.

I like that!

Re: Why?

[multimedea.livejournal.com]

I'm in complete agreement with Univos. Methos can and will do *anything* to make sure Duncan MacLeod is not 'lost'. Especially when Mac's own moral ambivalence about a situation puts him in harm's way of an Immortal who knows how to take advantage of that fact (Keane/Kristen/Liam O'Roarke). And if it takes him putting his hand in the matter directly and eliminating a dangerous obsticle that Mac's put on blinders for, he'll do it. Duncan might get mad at him about it (for a *long* time), but to his reckoning, MacLeod's still alive to get bitchy about it. Note that he doesn't directly interfere in all of Mac's confrontations because he does know that a MacLeod on Moral Autopilot is an unbeatable force.

Also gotta mention--as a card-carrying member of the Methos Boxer Brigade--the ROG is too hot in his skivvies! ;D

Re: Why?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I could put this action of Methos in the same category as him helping Duncan after the DQ? Since Duncan was much more of a danger to him at that point than Keane is to him here... . [ponders]

This is really just a half formed thought at this point, but I'll think about it :)

Re: Why?

[multimedea.livejournal.com]

Not to hijack the thread for a "Something Wicked"/"Deliverance" discussion, but I think you may have something there. There are many parallels in Methos' behavior there and in this ep. Not that I think he ever believed himself to be in any serious physical harm from Duncan. I can see him shooting Mac, hog-tying him, whatever it took to get him to the holy spring. But, the main parallel I see is that Methos felt his immediate presence on the scene was necessary to keep Duncan on a even keel (or to keep him from tipping too far to one side).

But, I also can see where Methos takes this tendency too far, both with Keane and in SW/D. Like electromagnets, he can be a balancing influence for Mac, but he can also bring too much energy into the system and therefore be a polarizing influence on Mac. I honestly think Methos is the reason Sean Burns died. It was Methos' surprise presence that tipped Mac's fragile balance in that scene. Sean may not have been able to 'cure' Mac, but Mac most likely wouldn't have killed him if Methos wasn't there. Methos then realizes he's overplayed his hand and driven Mac even further to one side. Which causes Methos to run and fetch the MacLeod family blade to root Mac back into his more noble past.

With the Keane situation, Methos also relearned he had to step aside and let Mac's own inner compass guide him.

Re: Why?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

[nods] Even more good stuff to think about!

With the Keane situation, Methos also relearned he had to step aside and let Mac's own inner compass guide him.

I think sometimes Methos falls into the trap of being the really old guy who knows better than the children. It isn't always true :)

Re: Why?

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes Methos falls into the trap of being the really old guy who knows better than the children. It isn't always true :)

And he isn't the only one! Amanda was in that frame of mind too.

I love this episode, especially the interaction between Methos and Amanda, and it made me fall in love with Amanda'a character!

Yup, I actually like Amanda, go figure!

Re: Why?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

You didn't like Amanda before this ep? Huh. She's one of my favourites :)

Re: Why?

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

You didn't like Amanda before this ep?

Ooh, I didn't mean to give that impression! I didn't dislike her before this episode; it's just that it was in this episode that Amanda went from 'amusing character' to 'wow, I love this character, let's write a fanfic'!

Re: Why?

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Ah! K :)