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So George Lucas based Luke on himself, and Gene Roddenberry based Wesley on himself, and those are just two are off the top of my head, and now, I discover that one of the creators of How I Met Your Mother based Ted on himself and the other creator, Marshall. Yet I never see the screams of 'MARY SUE!' that I'm sure would exist if these guys were women.
Just an observation.
Ted was originally modeled on you, and Marshall on Craig. How far have those characters evolved from that? Do you ever sit around and say, "I wouldn't do that" or "We wouldn't do that to each other"?
Ted certainly isn't me anymore. I haven't been engaged, or had a lot of the other experiences he's had. It's more the characters have become themselves .We definitely do try to ask ourselves, "Would this happen to us? Would this happen to someone we know?" for all the characters. We try to keep them personal and real, but there's more overlap now. I relate to Marshall as much as I do to Ted.
Full text here, but it is spoilerish for the last ep of the season.
Just an observation.
Ted was originally modeled on you, and Marshall on Craig. How far have those characters evolved from that? Do you ever sit around and say, "I wouldn't do that" or "We wouldn't do that to each other"?
Ted certainly isn't me anymore. I haven't been engaged, or had a lot of the other experiences he's had. It's more the characters have become themselves .We definitely do try to ask ourselves, "Would this happen to us? Would this happen to someone we know?" for all the characters. We try to keep them personal and real, but there's more overlap now. I relate to Marshall as much as I do to Ted.
Full text here, but it is spoilerish for the last ep of the season.
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Date: 2009-05-19 08:26 pm (UTC)From:I may be biased, but it isn't fair to say Ianto was ever just "the teaboy boy." He was doing more than making coffee in "Everything Changes". Jack told him to be Owen's back up then. Besides, if you start throwing around the term Mary Sue in New Who, it's just as applicable to the Doctor himself or Captain Jack Harkness. One of the many reasons I hate RTD is how badly Mary Sue he's made the Doctor. Singling out Ianto is just as crap as people calling Elizabeth Swann a Mary Sue in PotC without acknowledging how Mary Sue Will Turner or Captain Jack Sparrow are. :b
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Date: 2009-05-19 08:39 pm (UTC)From:For example, when I get warnings about not making my character in my Queen of Swords fic a Mary Sue, I just fall off the chair laughing. I mean, they have seen the show, right? Tessa Alvarado, the female lead, who is so beautiful that all men want her, and is an expert swordswoman after only a handful of years, able to beat men who have trained all their lives. It's the little things that are amusing [g]
Ianto is just my favourite example becuase if he had been female, many of the female fans who adore him would have loathed him/her with with a fiery passion.
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Date: 2009-05-19 08:52 pm (UTC)From:*Hugs.* Have I told you lately that I love you? *Bats eyelashes.*
Ianto is just my favourite example because if he had been female, many of the female fans who adore him would have loathed him/her with with a fiery passion.
Well, I'm protective of Ianto because some fans, in my experience shippers that either ship Jack with a different and equally Mary Sue male character or shippers that ship Jack with Gwen Cooper, will call Ianto a Mary Sue without owning how Mary Sue the character they prefer to ship Jack with is or how Mary Sue Jack himself is. It's one of those parts of how much Mary Sue has become just an insult to be tossed at any character someone doesn't like.
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Date: 2009-05-19 09:22 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-19 10:09 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-19 08:43 pm (UTC)From:In my mind the only true Mary Sue I see on TV is Lana Lang. In season one she's a popular cheerleader, not particularly intelligent but very pretty. During the course of the series EVERY major male character falls in love with her (classic marysuism). By the end of season 7 she's an incredible hacker, Super smart, knows Karate/Kung fu, becomes an covert operative weapon's specialist and even gets Superman's powers. Seriously that's Mary Sue personified and I'm so glad she's gone
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Date: 2009-05-19 10:32 pm (UTC)From:*Nods.* Yeah, whether or not there might have been some original good intention to making the theoretical definition of Mary Sue, and all the litmus tests, I think the term has pretty much become a standard insult to level at any character someone doesn't like. Like I told Ith, I'm protective of Ianto because I've seen some fans (in my experience shippers that either ship Jack with a different and equally "Mary Sue" male character or shippers that ship Jack with Gwen Cooper) that will call Ianto a Mary Sue just as an insult. It seems clear to me they aren't really applying any other standards because they don't acknowledge how "Mary Sue" Jack himself can be.
In my mind the only true Mary Sue I see on TV is Lana Lang. In season one she's a popular cheerleader, not particularly intelligent but very pretty.
Heh, I can't remember if I've ever actually watched any Smallville so I can't say anything about how Lana's been characterized on the show, but I do remember being disappointed when I heard about the casting for Lana Lang. I had vague childhood memories of Lana as a kickass redhead, and the girl they cast as Lana in the show is no redhead.