Marty Sue?

[ithildin]

So George Lucas based Luke on himself, and Gene Roddenberry based Wesley on himself, and those are just two are off the top of my head, and now, I discover that one of the creators of How I Met Your Mother based Ted on himself and the other creator, Marshall. Yet I never see the screams of 'MARY SUE!' that I'm sure would exist if these guys were women.

Just an observation.


Ted was originally modeled on you, and Marshall on Craig. How far have those characters evolved from that? Do you ever sit around and say, "I wouldn't do that" or "We wouldn't do that to each other"?

Ted certainly isn't me anymore. I haven't been engaged, or had a lot of the other experiences he's had. It's more the characters have become themselves .We definitely do try to ask ourselves, "Would this happen to us? Would this happen to someone we know?" for all the characters. We try to keep them personal and real, but there's more overlap now. I relate to Marshall as much as I do to Ted.


Full text here, but it is spoilerish for the last ep of the season.

Comments

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

I don't get that either. But I've given up on trying to understand the irrational hate-on fandom has for The Vag. Three years in the SPN fandom cures you of that quick.

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

Except that the Mary-sue type is not merely based on the author's self. She is a women who is inexplicably perfect, loved by all and capable of performing any task including saving the hero when she has no idea how to shoot a gun/use a sword/perform karate/ride a horse/speak French...you name the skill and she suddenly can do it.

In my mind the ultimate Mary Sue is Lana from Smallville.

Ted is a flawed character - if he was a true Marty Sue we would never hear about his failures (lost his job/left at the alter) only his ability to do everything perfectly.

I do think the term Mary Sure is routinely supplied to any OFC and you and I both know that is not the case.

Sorry We've talked about this before and i get so angry about the Mary sue label. Charlotte is not a Mary Sue. But I do agree that OMCs are more accepted than OFCs

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Yes, that is the supposed definition of a Mary Sue, but these days, any female character that a female creator acknowledged is based in part on herself would be instantly branded a Mary Sue. Not so for a man and a male character.

Yeah, I realize it's the reality of today's fandom, but it doesn't mean I can't bitch about it :)

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

After nearly 30 years in fandom, I should be used to it, but I can't help the occasional rant :)

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

I count myself lucky, because I haven't seen female hate (beyond the Mary Sue cry) on such a rabid, irrational level since I came to the SPN fandom. I used to think the Naruto fanbrats were ridiculous with how they hated on the girls - "I hate Sakura, she's weak", then Sakura gets some real power and it's, "I hate Sakura, she's too powerful now!" - but it's nothing compared to SPN batfuck nutters.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad I never got into SPN fandom and just watch the show every week :)

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

I should know better after all of this time, but it's like a train wreck and I'm in it. Twisted metal and whatnot all around, I know I should get out before the fuel explodes, but I'm mesmerized by the carnage. Plus, the wank is actually really fucking funny.

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

I know which is why I took the opportunity to rant myself - It's very cathartic and completely unfair that OMCs are more accepted.

And it gives me an opportunity to say how much I hate that classic Mary Sue, that no one acknowledges, Lana Lang again *snickers*.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I've never seen the show, so I'll take your word for it [g] My pet Mary Sue is Ianto from Torchwood!

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

That's true. Ianto went from coffee boy to agent in one episode and the hero fell madly in love with him - Yep All signs point to Mary Sue

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

The hero who is his boss even!

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love original characters! And surely ones based on the writer would be fairly well-drawn, complex, and realistic, so no bad there.

I actually have a rather difficult time writing gender cues and identity into characters, never having gotten the hang of either myself. Since, in the absence of gender cues, characters are assumed male, that means I mostly write male characters.

However, this kerfuffle over OFC's mostly just sounds like people being idiots.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I think it was Anne McCaffrey who said every character she writes has an aspect of herself in them. It was at a con many years ago, but I think it was her :)

I have a few OMCs, but they are never front and center since I don't really 'get' men, or so I believe, and because men already dominate my fandoms. I just think that there should be more gals :)

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Sometimes you just can't help it.

[grachonok.livejournal.com]

It's rather obvious - most crying and ranting in fandom is done by the girls, so, when it comes to male charactres, there is no point of jeolusy:).
Most OFCs are Mary Sue in a way, the point is, they are different from each other. Elizabeth Benneth is technically a Mary Sue, and so what?:) There are very popular fantasy book-series in Russia, where main witch-character is 100% author herself, but books are so well written, that nobody is ranting. And those who do, are just jeolus of the author's success:).
As for the fandom - well, there are OFCs that make me sick and there are OFCs that make me interested, there are characters that I utterly disbelieve in and there are characters I wish I created myself:). All depends on the author's skill and talent.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

There are very popular fantasy book-series in Russia, where main witch-character is 100% author herself, but books are so well written, that nobody is ranting

Seriously? Wow! That's so refreshing to hear! Maybe they'll be translated into English one day.

[aeron-lanart.livejournal.com]

I distinctly remember the screams about Wesley being Marty Stu on usenet in Trek fandom years ago. Have to admit it's a lot quieter now...

and even acknowledged Mary-Sues can actually be fun to read and write

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

My impression was people just hated Wesley on principal LOL I actually liked him, so what do I know?

[grachonok.livejournal.com]

Seriously:). It may be an 'exception confirming the rule', but it does exist:).

[bookaddict43.livejournal.com]

So true! The ranting is always less with male OMCs/Mary/Stus. The exception being, as someone above me said, poor Wesley in STNG.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

[nods] the women folk just can't seem to catch a break.

[dallion.livejournal.com]

I read this post and all the comments and I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

[shadadukal]

If it concerns men, it's 'Gary Stu'. ;)

[fractured-sun.livejournal.com]

Ah see it's not so much whether they are based on a real person but whether they come out as a well rounded 3 dimensional character

I have an almost pathological hatred of badly portrayed female characters (whether in fandom or in canon). It's one of the things I hate about gundam wing (my main anime fandom). Some of the main female characters are basically just there to look pretty and take up space (though bizarrely some of the more minor female characters are awesome).

I'm much more forgiving about male characters (maybe I just care about them less). I love the interesting male characters and pretty much ignore the boring ones.

I absolutely adore strong, interesting and fun female characters. One of the reasons I love highlander, they have fantastic canon female characters- Amanda (for example). Anyone who can write an intersting OFC has my admiration. For some reason I find female characters much harder to write than male, (which is why I write them so occasionally and so slowly). I have no idea why this should be, you would think it'd be the other way round.

PS absolutely agree Lana is a Mary Sue, I find her very irritating.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

*Snickering.* For some reason I am inordinately amused by your using "Marty Sue" instead of "Marty Stu". It might be the sleep dep. *Whistles.* You know where I stand on the whole, "The boys don't get raked over the coals like the girls do." :D

I will say my favorite example I've seen of a male writer talking about his Marty Stu was Chuck Jones talking about Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck. He said Bugs was his perfect character that got away with everything while Daffy was his everyman. ;)