Marty Sue?

[ithildin]

So George Lucas based Luke on himself, and Gene Roddenberry based Wesley on himself, and those are just two are off the top of my head, and now, I discover that one of the creators of How I Met Your Mother based Ted on himself and the other creator, Marshall. Yet I never see the screams of 'MARY SUE!' that I'm sure would exist if these guys were women.

Just an observation.


Ted was originally modeled on you, and Marshall on Craig. How far have those characters evolved from that? Do you ever sit around and say, "I wouldn't do that" or "We wouldn't do that to each other"?

Ted certainly isn't me anymore. I haven't been engaged, or had a lot of the other experiences he's had. It's more the characters have become themselves .We definitely do try to ask ourselves, "Would this happen to us? Would this happen to someone we know?" for all the characters. We try to keep them personal and real, but there's more overlap now. I relate to Marshall as much as I do to Ted.


Full text here, but it is spoilerish for the last ep of the season.

Comments

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

Except that the Mary-sue type is not merely based on the author's self. She is a women who is inexplicably perfect, loved by all and capable of performing any task including saving the hero when she has no idea how to shoot a gun/use a sword/perform karate/ride a horse/speak French...you name the skill and she suddenly can do it.

In my mind the ultimate Mary Sue is Lana from Smallville.

Ted is a flawed character - if he was a true Marty Sue we would never hear about his failures (lost his job/left at the alter) only his ability to do everything perfectly.

I do think the term Mary Sure is routinely supplied to any OFC and you and I both know that is not the case.

Sorry We've talked about this before and i get so angry about the Mary sue label. Charlotte is not a Mary Sue. But I do agree that OMCs are more accepted than OFCs

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Yes, that is the supposed definition of a Mary Sue, but these days, any female character that a female creator acknowledged is based in part on herself would be instantly branded a Mary Sue. Not so for a man and a male character.

Yeah, I realize it's the reality of today's fandom, but it doesn't mean I can't bitch about it :)

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

I know which is why I took the opportunity to rant myself - It's very cathartic and completely unfair that OMCs are more accepted.

And it gives me an opportunity to say how much I hate that classic Mary Sue, that no one acknowledges, Lana Lang again *snickers*.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I've never seen the show, so I'll take your word for it [g] My pet Mary Sue is Ianto from Torchwood!

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

That's true. Ianto went from coffee boy to agent in one episode and the hero fell madly in love with him - Yep All signs point to Mary Sue

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

The hero who is his boss even!

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

Ianto went from coffee boy to agent in one episode...

I may be biased, but it isn't fair to say Ianto was ever just "the teaboy boy." He was doing more than making coffee in "Everything Changes". Jack told him to be Owen's back up then. Besides, if you start throwing around the term Mary Sue in New Who, it's just as applicable to the Doctor himself or Captain Jack Harkness. One of the many reasons I hate RTD is how badly Mary Sue he's made the Doctor. Singling out Ianto is just as crap as people calling Elizabeth Swann a Mary Sue in PotC without acknowledging how Mary Sue Will Turner or Captain Jack Sparrow are. :b

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely, DW is chock full of 'Mary Sues' of all varieties [g] Actually, a lot of the most popular movies and TV shows are. Which is part of why I find fandom so amusing some days!

For example, when I get warnings about not making my character in my Queen of Swords fic a Mary Sue, I just fall off the chair laughing. I mean, they have seen the show, right? Tessa Alvarado, the female lead, who is so beautiful that all men want her, and is an expert swordswoman after only a handful of years, able to beat men who have trained all their lives. It's the little things that are amusing [g]

Ianto is just my favourite example becuase if he had been female, many of the female fans who adore him would have loathed him/her with with a fiery passion.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely, DW is chock full of 'Mary Sues' of all varieties [g] Actually, a lot of the most popular movies and TV shows are. Which is part of why I find fandom so amusing some days!

*Hugs.* Have I told you lately that I love you? *Bats eyelashes.*

Ianto is just my favourite example because if he had been female, many of the female fans who adore him would have loathed him/her with with a fiery passion.

Well, I'm protective of Ianto because some fans, in my experience shippers that either ship Jack with a different and equally Mary Sue male character or shippers that ship Jack with Gwen Cooper, will call Ianto a Mary Sue without owning how Mary Sue the character they prefer to ship Jack with is or how Mary Sue Jack himself is. It's one of those parts of how much Mary Sue has become just an insult to be tossed at any character someone doesn't like.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

LOL! No, not lately [g]

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

Well, then -- "I love you, lady." <3

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

Actually I think the term 'Mary Sue' is trown at any character people have hate for - Not that I hate Ianto in fact I adore Ianto - I'm just saying it's an over used insult.

In my mind the only true Mary Sue I see on TV is Lana Lang. In season one she's a popular cheerleader, not particularly intelligent but very pretty. During the course of the series EVERY major male character falls in love with her (classic marysuism). By the end of season 7 she's an incredible hacker, Super smart, knows Karate/Kung fu, becomes an covert operative weapon's specialist and even gets Superman's powers. Seriously that's Mary Sue personified and I'm so glad she's gone

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

Actually I think the term 'Mary Sue' is thrown at any character people have hate for - Not that I hate Ianto in fact I adore Ianto - I'm just saying it's an over used insult.

*Nods.* Yeah, whether or not there might have been some original good intention to making the theoretical definition of Mary Sue, and all the litmus tests, I think the term has pretty much become a standard insult to level at any character someone doesn't like. Like I told Ith, I'm protective of Ianto because I've seen some fans (in my experience shippers that either ship Jack with a different and equally "Mary Sue" male character or shippers that ship Jack with Gwen Cooper) that will call Ianto a Mary Sue just as an insult. It seems clear to me they aren't really applying any other standards because they don't acknowledge how "Mary Sue" Jack himself can be.

In my mind the only true Mary Sue I see on TV is Lana Lang. In season one she's a popular cheerleader, not particularly intelligent but very pretty.

Heh, I can't remember if I've ever actually watched any Smallville so I can't say anything about how Lana's been characterized on the show, but I do remember being disappointed when I heard about the casting for Lana Lang. I had vague childhood memories of Lana as a kickass redhead, and the girl they cast as Lana in the show is no redhead.

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love original characters! And surely ones based on the writer would be fairly well-drawn, complex, and realistic, so no bad there.

I actually have a rather difficult time writing gender cues and identity into characters, never having gotten the hang of either myself. Since, in the absence of gender cues, characters are assumed male, that means I mostly write male characters.

However, this kerfuffle over OFC's mostly just sounds like people being idiots.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I think it was Anne McCaffrey who said every character she writes has an aspect of herself in them. It was at a con many years ago, but I think it was her :)

I have a few OMCs, but they are never front and center since I don't really 'get' men, or so I believe, and because men already dominate my fandoms. I just think that there should be more gals :)

[grachonok.livejournal.com]

It's rather obvious - most crying and ranting in fandom is done by the girls, so, when it comes to male charactres, there is no point of jeolusy:).
Most OFCs are Mary Sue in a way, the point is, they are different from each other. Elizabeth Benneth is technically a Mary Sue, and so what?:) There are very popular fantasy book-series in Russia, where main witch-character is 100% author herself, but books are so well written, that nobody is ranting. And those who do, are just jeolus of the author's success:).
As for the fandom - well, there are OFCs that make me sick and there are OFCs that make me interested, there are characters that I utterly disbelieve in and there are characters I wish I created myself:). All depends on the author's skill and talent.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

There are very popular fantasy book-series in Russia, where main witch-character is 100% author herself, but books are so well written, that nobody is ranting

Seriously? Wow! That's so refreshing to hear! Maybe they'll be translated into English one day.

[grachonok.livejournal.com]

Seriously:). It may be an 'exception confirming the rule', but it does exist:).

[dejla.livejournal.com]

Bitch. It makes me feel better.