No Matter How Many Times.....

[ithildin]

...I watch Revelations 6:8, the Slinky Quickening never fails to amuse me. Talk about unintentional humour in what was supposed to be a dramatic moment.

And no matter how many times I watch the two Horsemen eps, I still come away totally ticked off at Duncan.

Some things are eternal [g]

Comments

[fractured-sun.livejournal.com]

Funny isn't it, I'm sure we're meant to feel horrified at Methos but I think redemption and growth from darkness is such a powerfully positive image... Plus we all already love Methos.

I'm not sure now what my reaction was when I first saw the episode, to many rewatches to contend with. At the last watch a large part of me wanted to whack Duncan on the head (several times until he stopped being an idiot), but the rest of me actually felt a bit sorry for him. Like when you first discover your parents aren't perfect after all (even though they never pretended to be). They both looked so upset after that confrontation in the carpark.

It's not like he lets it go afterwards either, he had less trouble with John Cage's reinvention.

Still not sure what all the fuss was about, in that time period only killing 10 people a year practically made you a humanitarian :-).

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I could go on for pages about my Duncan issues, but I'll pick one: Darius. Duncan worshiped him, but Darius only became good via a Light Quickening. Methos changed all on his own, through his own desire. Not to mention Methos saved Duncan from a Dark Quickening, never judging him after he killed Sean.

[grachonok.livejournal.com]

Absolutely and positively agreed.

(The way Mac behaved in the begining of Methuselah Gift, which was their first meeting after Dark Quickening, is also questionable, to say the least.)

[anoriel.livejournal.com]

Questionable?!
[I will share my anger with you again... :)]

How dumb Mac was!

[fractured-sun.livejournal.com]

It's like fate (or someone equally sneaky I actually have a half written fic about it) is conspiring to teach Duncan about change and ready him to accept the whole horseman thing and then he just isn't understanding about it.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

But Darius was honest with Duncan about his past.

What you have to remember is that Duncan wasn't pissed off at Methos being a Horseman. Duncan was pissed off because Methos was his friend. Someone he trusted with his life. Someone he had shared some of his darkest secrets. The person who had pulled him out of the dark quickening. And Methos had lied to him, and continued to lie to him initially after Cassandra confronted him.

Duncan wasn't mad because of something Methos did thousands of years ago. He was mad because someone he loved (in any way you perceive that) and trusted had betrayed his trust and hadn't confided in him. On top of that he had to learn about it from someone else.

Can you imagine how he felt when he took up for Methos and told Cassandra Methos was his friend. This was the person he knew, confided in, shared things with. And he was basically made a fool of when he had to admit he didn't know anything about this man, who he had been, what he had been....

Darius confided in him. Admitted his darkness and gave Duncan someone he could trust to share his own dark secrets with. He was honest. That's a trust and caring that you expect from a friend. He had every right to expect it from Methos.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I actually don't believe Duncan would have accepted Methos if he'd told him about his past. And I honestly don't see that Methos had any sort of obligation to tell Duncan about his past. Actions mean more than words, and Methos' actions over the course of his friendship with Duncan should have counted for more IMHO.

Maybe I'm looking at this from too much of a RL perspective, but I don't expect my friends to share everything about themselves with me. It isn't necessary for then to share everything for me to trust them. That's based on their actions towards me, not on their past.

But this is one of those things we're never going to agree on :)

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why you think Duncan would never have accepted Methos if he had told him the truth. As you pointed out with Darius, Duncan's actions already prove that he would. He knew what Darius was. Darius was honest with him and Duncan accepted him. His actions are pretty straight forward and pretty much put to rest the theory that he would not have understood or accepted the truth.

Interesting that in the episode in season 1 when Tessa finds out an old college friend was a prostitute, it was Tessa who was shocked and unaccepting. It was Duncan who took up for her and understood. He also took up for and understood Richie's past and Richie's dad's past. In fact, there are numerous instances where Duncan's actions prove that he was, indeed, understanding of other's faults and pasts as long as they were honest and took responsibility for the.

How about the guy who was responsible for those children being murdered? Duncan wanted to kill him - *until* the guy came clean, admitted the deed and took responsibilty for it. Then Duncan could not kill him as that man no longer existed. Duncan has proven the fallacy of the theory that he would not have understood repeadtedly.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Mostly because Methos meant something to Duncan. I think finding out about his true past would have been something he couldn't accept right away. In time, probably, but not initially. And then we wouldn't have had any more Methos episodes!

And honestly, as many gripes as I have over it all, as far as great drama goes [snerk] the way Methos' past was revealed couldn't really be improved upon. Just those scenes with Kronos in the present day were worth the price of admission.

Oh, and something I didn't mention last night, but was griping about with Nin: Methos and Cassandra and their joint idiot moment. Both of them assuming the buzz they felt was Duncan! Is that some sort of Bronze Age senility? Makes me throw socks at the screen every time!

[fractured-sun.livejournal.com]

Honestly much as I love Methos, is something that big something you should just accept straight away?

I think I agree with Pat though that Duncan would eventually have accepted it better if Methos had been the one to tell him about it. In fairness I think Methos was about to tell him before Cassandra interrupted.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Mostly because Methos meant something to Duncan. I think finding out about his true past would have been something he couldn't accept right away. In time, probably, but not initially.

Exactly!! Which goes back to what I said initially. It wasn't his past that he couldn't accept. It's because Methos meant something to him. It was the betrayal, the lack of honesty. It was the fact that Methos hurt Duncan that he had trouble accepting. His anger wasn't coming from Methos' past. His anger was coming from his hurt and anger that Methos had lied to him, and betrayed his trust. Methos wounded Duncan. When Duncan says "we're through" there were tears in his eyes. He had just lost something very precious to him - Methos friendship. Not because he wanted to throw it away, but because Methos wounded it with his lies. He took Duncan's trust, friendship and caring and threw it back in his face at the Jimmy.

When Joe was trying to talk to him, Joe was talking about the past Horsemen. Duncan wasn't. He was pacing, shouting because he was hurt - not for what Methos had done in the Bronze age. But because of what Methos had done to him. He felt like he'd been made a fool and he had to wonder if Methos had been using him and making fun of him this entire time.