'The Modern Prometheus'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the sixteenth installment of Methos Episode Discussion. You can find the last one, for Forgive Us Our Trespasses here. All prior episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

The Modern Prometheus, Air Date: May 1997

Lord Byron, the brilliant Romantic poet, is alive and well and living the decadent life of a rock star. He lives life way over the edge and has taken some promising young musicians over the edge with him. When following in Byron's footsteps tragically ends the life of Dawson's protege, MacLeod is faced with a decision -- is the beauty and genius that is Byron worth the cost? ~ recap and quotes via tv.com

Quotes below the curtain





Duncan: Duncan: Cut the crap - Mike is dead because of him.
Methos: No, Mike is dead because of Mike.
Duncan: The kid idolized him. Maybe he didn't pull the trigger but he sure as hell put the gun in his hand. "To live like me you have to be like me." Come on, Methos, Mike couldn't do that, he wasn't Immortal.
Methos: And that is not Byron's fault
________________________

Byron: My task is done. My song has ceased. My theme has died into an echo...it is fit.
________________________

Byron: Would you rather have a tombstone that says "he lived for centuries', or one that says 'for centuries, he was alive"?
Methos: You're not listening to me - I don't want a tombstone.
________________________






Next up will be Indiscretions aka The Methos & Joe Show 'Archangel'.

Comments

An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

It occurred to me as I was rewatching last night to finally ask what it is those of you have mentioned that Methos and Byron were lovers see in the episode to make you so sure they were. It also may be what I think of when I see 'lovers' is different than what someone else means, so that may be part of the problem. My take on the episode from the first time I saw it (At Syndicon the week it aired in a suite full of women in the dark. Gillian and Donna brought a tape of it for us all to watch with them), and one that hasn't changed too much over the years:

My assumption was, based on the amount of drugs, alcohol, and farm animals we saw in the flashbacks, that there was a great deal of casual sex going on -- orgy is about the only word I can think of that fits -- group sex, perhaps. Granted, we don't see that, but it was a TV show [g] They're chasing the maids around, Percy is making out with a woman who is not his wife, and the scene where the woman is pouring wine down her leg kind of sealed that impression for me, if what I'd seen already hadn't done so. So while Byron and Methos may have had sexual contact, that doesn't mean 'lovers' to me. To me that implies two people in a committed romantic relationship, and Byron just doesn't seem to be that guy.

Then there's the bedroom scene with Byron, Mary, and Methos. Byron is under the influence, wanting to break every taboo he can, indulge in the forbidden and exciting, and he really wants Methos to do it with him. Methos is obviously tempted, but puts the brakes on and tells Byron to basically knock it off. Again, nothing in that scene screams 'lovers' to me, just general licentiousness.

What I took away from the episode as far as the relationship between the two of them was one of a very strong teacher/student bond, mentor/protege, and friendship.

So now I'm very interested in the other side of the coin, and I think this is the right crowd to ask :)

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Heh, reading over my comment and realizing how hard I was trying to be delicate. Not sure I suceeded. [adjusts tea hat and eats another finger sandwich]

Re: An Honest Question

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

I'm sure older fans will have interesting things to say, but I guess I don't define "lovers" as you do. They need not have been in a "committed" relationship to have been lovers, imho. I doubt Byron was in a committed relationship with anyone! Lots of casual sex going on.

I think you're right in sussing out the mood of the episode. There's a very debauched atmosphere in that house. The wine down the leg, the rolling around on pillows, the goat. Anything goes.

Methos seems entranced by Byrons, and gives him some looks that remind me of the way he looks at Duncan sometimes.

What you said about this being a tv show is very true. There are some things they cannot show. That's where the subtext comes in, and a lot of the subtext for me is in the way Methos looks at certain men, such as Byron, Kronos, and Ducan.

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

That's part of it, because I'm not sure exactly what other people mean by the term.

Methos seems entranced by Byrons, and gives him some looks that remind me of the way he looks at Duncan sometimes.

And I don't see the entranced look thing at all. So that's part of my curiousity :)

What you said about this being a tv show is very true. There are some things they cannot show. That's where the subtext comes in, and a lot of the subtext for me is in the way Methos looks at certain men, such as Byron, Kronos, and Ducan.

I get subtext, but I know it isn't a surprise to anyone here that I'm not subtexting the same things most of you are. My text is without a sub, or something [g] And I really wish I were, because I'd have a lot more fic to read!

Thanks for playing along with me here, I appreciate it :)

Re: An Honest Question

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

so, the goat... more subtext?

LOL

sorry. I do see them as lovers. But I think it's a casual thing, yes. It's left up to individual interpretation, as so much is.

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

so, the goat... more subtext?

And then some [g]


sorry. I do see them as lovers. But I think it's a casual thing, yes. It's left up to individual interpretation, as so much is.

No need to be sorry :) I'm just pereptually curious and am really interested in how other people are interpreting the same scenes/characters.

Re: An Honest Question

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

There are some things they cannot show. That's where the subtext comes in, and a lot of the subtext for me is in the way Methos looks at certain men, such as Byron, Kronos, and Ducan.

For me, Methos seems to suffer from a perpetual fascination with passion -any kind of passion! I never had a problem with imagining Methos as a character who swung both ways; I always thought there was more going on behind the scenes between he and Byron and, perhaps, Kronos (although not necessarily of a consentual nature).

The Duncan/Methos pairing always made me pause, however. Yes, I can see Methos being attracted to Duncan, but I can't see Duncan reciprocating. Duncan, for me, is a ladies man through and through.

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

That's pretty close to my own feelings on the mattter. And my roommate, who slashes most every fandom she's in, says something similar about why she doesn't see Duncan/Methos.

Re: An Honest Question

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

Then there's the bedroom scene with Byron, Mary, and Methos. Byron is under the influence, wanting to break every taboo he can, indulge in the forbidden and exciting, and he really wants Methos to do it with him. Methos is obviously tempted, but puts the brakes on and tells Byron to basically knock it off. Again, nothing in that scene screams 'lovers' to me, just general licentiousness.

To me, everything in that scene screams a certain level of sexual familiarity between Methos and Byron. What I see Methos objecting to is the idea that they didn't need Mary conscious and consenting to include her in their games. If she'd woken up right about then, it might have been a different story.

Also, the Watcher Chronicles out them both. In conclusion, Methos and Byron? SoDoingIt.

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Also, the Watcher Chronicles out them both. In conclusion, Methos and Byron? SoDoingIt.

See, I haven't read any of that, so I only have the episode to go by.

I'm not saying anyone else is wrong, just trying to get a handle on the whole thing.

And I'm thinking typing out comments after a couple of gin and tonics may not be the most coherent thing I've ever done :)

Re: An Honest Question

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

Nah, you're doing fine.

As for the Watcher Chronicles, if you've got the dvd sets, then the info's on there in the special features.

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Heh! Glad you think so, cus I'm fairly bleary at this point :)

I haven't yet worked my way through the sub menus. Wasn't sure there was anything much in there. But I'll have to make a point to dig a little deeper now I know there's useful info there.

Re: An Honest Question

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

There's definitely some good stuff in there. Some deadset lame stuff as well, but that's what the stop button is for.

Re: An Honest Question

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

I have read some of the bits that tell you what swords different immies used and such, but I thought that pretty much was all that was in there. I've only had the DVDs a few months, so I I know I haven't hit everything yet.

Watcher Chronicles

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

When you say that the Watcher Chronicles outs them both, what are you referring to? All I remember is the bit about Methos being attracted to strong, charismatic Immortals, and weak women. I thought they went out of their way to be ambiguous, actually, in saying "Immortals" rather than "men," and "attracted to" rather than "in love with" or some such more explicit phrase.

I mean, I see it the same way you do, but I do think there's wiggle room in there, unless you're referring to something else in the Watcher Chronicles.

Re: Watcher Chronicles

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

I mean the Chronicle entry for Byron that states he was 'enjoying' Mary Shelley, Claire and the Doctor in the debaucheries at the chateau that summer. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but that's pretty close.

Re: Watcher Chronicles

[(Anonymous)]

Historically speaking it is well established that Byron went both ways (and sideways) sexually and that he had a sexual relationship with his doctor. As they put Methos in the role thereof, it is probably safe to say that the intention was to make clear (or very strongly imply) that Byron and Methos had been lovers.

Knowing this historical fact, I was shocked when Byron called Methos "Doc" since to me it removed any doubt as to the bi-sexual nature of Methos character and his possible motives with Duncan.

Roberta

Re: Watcher Chronicles

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Roberta, why aren't you using your LJ account and all the pretty icons I made you? [g]

Okay, you lost me. What does him calling Methos "Doc" have to do with sexual orientation? Methos was a doctor at the time.

Re: Watcher Chronicles

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

I think we were meant to infer that 'Doc' was Dr Polidori, author of 'The Vampire' and Byron's companion in that time period. Byron was sexually omnivorous, and it's fairly well documented that he and Polidori were sexually involved. Ipso facto, Polidori = Methos = Does It With Boys.

*gasp*

Re: Watcher Chronicles

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks :) We ended up talking aobut it in email, so now I get what she meant. Thanks for the additional information! Who says the interent can't be educational? [g]