Marty Sue?

[ithildin]

So George Lucas based Luke on himself, and Gene Roddenberry based Wesley on himself, and those are just two are off the top of my head, and now, I discover that one of the creators of How I Met Your Mother based Ted on himself and the other creator, Marshall. Yet I never see the screams of 'MARY SUE!' that I'm sure would exist if these guys were women.

Just an observation.


Ted was originally modeled on you, and Marshall on Craig. How far have those characters evolved from that? Do you ever sit around and say, "I wouldn't do that" or "We wouldn't do that to each other"?

Ted certainly isn't me anymore. I haven't been engaged, or had a lot of the other experiences he's had. It's more the characters have become themselves .We definitely do try to ask ourselves, "Would this happen to us? Would this happen to someone we know?" for all the characters. We try to keep them personal and real, but there's more overlap now. I relate to Marshall as much as I do to Ted.


Full text here, but it is spoilerish for the last ep of the season.

Comments

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that you named Amanda in Highlander as a strong interesting *un* Mary Sue character. In fact, she is the *ultimate* Mary Sue character.

Lets see - she's beautiful (and everyone on the show who sees her thinks she is). She flirts with all the male characters and they lose their minds, give into her and totally sell one another out. Look at Richie, Duncan and Joe. Even Methos gets a little funny around her.

She wears the skin tight clothes. Another woman wanted to be her so badly she changed her own hair and wardrobe to look like her.

No matter what she does, Duncan takes up for her - risks his life for her. Even when it hurt Tessa. Even though she's betrayed him and almost gotten him killed.

She somehow manages to outsmart, outcon, out flirt everyone so that she has managed to live over 1000 years.

She's just so pretty and perky and *perfect*. Rebecca looked over her trying to steal from her and still opened her arms to her. Even though she never showed us any great sword skills, she still won over all the big bad guys.

Duncan looked over *all* her moral shortcomings because she was just so irresistable.

You couldn't write a more perfect *fits the profile* Mary Sue.

Unless....

[fractured-sun.livejournal.com]

Yes but she's fun... so I don't care. Besides most of that is the facade she presents to the world.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

She is fun, but she's the perfect Mary Sue by definition. And I'd have to disagree with the facade part. I think in all six seasons she has shown that is pretty consistently *her*. Not really a lot of layers under there. She's pretty superficial.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

The reason I hate the term "Mary Sue" period no matter how it is applied is that it's either a) subjective -- a matter of the individual reader's idea of "perfect," b) about an arbitrary set of standards which are more about how cliche the character is than how perfect or c) it's about whether or not they're an original character being added by a fanfic writer into a canon series. I can be said Amanda isn't a Mary Sue because she's canon, of course then some people will trot out the term "canon-Sue." It can be argue whether or no she meets the standards of some litmus test designed for spotting fanfic Sues. It can be argued whether or not your idea of perfect is someone else's. I believe the term Mary Sue sucks.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

I think most people hate the term. Yet, every so often it is trotted out along with the definition. It doesn't matter if it is canon or fanon. Look at some of the comments here in this thread. *So-and-so* couldn't be Mary Sue because Mary Sue by definition is X, Y, & Z. It's the same standard definition that fandom has been using for decades. The point I was making is that if we really want to go there, many of our favorite canon female characters fit that definition in spades.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

I think most people hate the term.

It seems to me like a lot of people use it as an insult for any character they don't like.

The point I was making is that if we really want to go there, many of our favorite canon female characters fit that definition in spades.

Sorry. It seemed to me Ith was grumbling about Mary Sue being applied more to female characters then males, and when you singled out Amanda rather Duncan MacLeod or Methos it felt like you were doing exactly what Ith was grumbling about. I can handle most of the ways in which Duncan is a Mary Sue, but when they started talking about him as not just a hero but The Hero fifth season... I've only watched the whole of the Ahriman story arc once. I am deeply grateful Methos is only in the first episode.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

See, when a guy does it, he's the HERO, when a gal does it, she's a Mary Sue [g]

I was feeling grumbly last night, not so much today :) I think when comment threads get long, there tends to be some miscommunication along the way.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

See, when a guy does it, he's the HERO, when a gal does it, she's a Mary Sue [g]

*Giggles.* Ooooh, and here I thought when Duncan become The Hero, or the Doctor The Lonely God they progressed from "classic Mary Sue" to "Goddess Mary Sue." Silly me. *Smacks forehead.*

I think when comment threads get long, there tends to be some miscommunication along the way.

*Nods.* Yeah, and when it's a subject I'm as touchy about as Mary Sue it's easy for me to react without really getting what someone is trying to say. *Blushes and ducks head.*