'Deliverance'

[ithildin]

Welcome to the fifth installment of Methos Episode discussion. You can find the last one, for 'Timeless' here.

Deliverance, Air Date: Feb. 1996

MacLeod arrives in France, leaving a trail of hate and destruction in his wake. Methos finds him and discovers just how evil MacLeod has become when he tries to take Methos' head on holy ground. After MacLeod kills another good friend, Methos realizes that the only way to save MacLeod may be to kill him. ~ via tv.com

Next up will be Methuselah's Gift . Look for it on Thursday.

Comments

[enchantersnight.livejournal.com]

"I'm getting too old for this" well I had the horrid feeling he might end the same way as Sean Burns (that made me cry btw and I didn't even know him!)

A very different episode AP did nasty well (frightening) but that could have been me thinking oh my god he is going to kill him in the church! obviously what Methos was thinking too! and the sheer terror on PW face when he is handing him the clan sword was a sight to behold I can't find a picture though :(

I enjoyed the aftermath of the church too with Duncan stealing the car and Methos aside "I hope you're insured" strange man to keep his sense of humor at a time like that.

The whole fight at the spring was weird and I did think Methos had a death wish giving Duncan the sword after he had just hit him!

Will be interested to see what others thought.

Deliverance

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

I have to admit this is one of those episodes I just don't get, and haven't gone back to watch again.

First, I don't really understand the premise of the "dark Quickening." More precisely, I don't get why killing evil people doesn't *always* produce dire effects in the killer. Why doesn't Duncan turn a little bit evil every time he kills an evil Immortal? How does the whole transfer-of-energy even work during a Quickening?

Second, I don't get why Methos is going to all this trouble to save Duncan. It's very nice of him, it's very nice for us slashers, but why? "You're too important to lose" is not good enough.

Finally, it breaks my heart to see him kill Sean Burns. I hate the writers for doing that to him.

Re: Deliverance

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Maybe it was all so AP could writhe around in the Holy Hot Tub?

The whole Dark Quickening thing... something I've been meaning to ask, because I no longer remember. Is it canon that Daruis becoming a good guy was due to a "Light Quickening"? I knew once, but now I don't. Brain's getting old :)

[sophiedb.livejournal.com]

Maybe it was all so AP could writhe around in the Holy Hot Tub?

*lol* nail, meet head..

Re: Deliverance

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

Yes, I was thinking of the Quickening that Darius took that made him "good," and also of the fact that Duncan is supposedly helped to turn back to goodness when he takes Sean's Quickening. Why do some Quickenings transfer goodness or evil, while others don't? It is confusing to me.

Re: Deliverance

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

I think "Light" and "Dark" Quickenings have to do with the magnitude of the Quickening. The Dark Quickening that Duncan suffers in the episode was made up of all these evil Immortals, while an usual Quickening from an evil Immortal would presumably have innocent and "good" Quickenings inside it as well. Does that make sense?

[sophiedb.livejournal.com]

I don't get why Methos is going to all this trouble to save Duncan.. [snip] .."You're too important to lose" is not good enough.

Duncan dying or staying evil would mean that Methos would have to find another horse to back as far as winning the Game goes. If it really was the time of the Gathering, he probably wouldn't have enough time to make the same level of investment in befriending the presumed winner.. and if it's Duncan (in good, honourable mode) he's got a better chance of living forever.

I don't buy the idea that Methos ever really let his skills get rusty, but anyone who attracts (and beats) as many K'Immies as Duncan has got to be good enough to give him a run for his money. If it comes down to just Duncan, Methos and maybe some of their friends, he can just appeal to Duncan's nice side and pull out a bottle of old whisky.

Then again, if a Dark Quickening's already tipped Duncan over once, what would happen if he (or anyone else) *had* to take Methos' head? There's still an ex-Horseman lurking around in there. Maybe that's contributing to his need to survive, not wanting to let all that get loose again *scratches head*

The Game

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

So you think if The Game came down to Duncan and a few pals, he wouldn't kill any of them? I agree with you, but (within the parameters of The Game) isn't he supposed to kill everyone else? There Can Be Only One, and all that crap.

I don't really get the whole Game business either. Or The Gathering. Come to think of it, there's a lot about this show that I don't get.

(love your icon; Methos looks perfect in it. What episode is it from?)

[sophiedb.livejournal.com]

The Game/Gathering doesn't make sense to me either. If they're supposed to be killing each other, how come so many choose the whole "live and let live" approach? Or at least, not fighting anyone unless challenged or otherwise provoked. Is there supposed to be an Immortal "on" switch that'll send them all into a murderous frenzy one day?

"There Can Be Only One" unless you're my mate, in which case it's your round :)

Regards the icon, I honestly don't know which episode it's from.. Found while searching for icon-fodder (same goes for this one). Bad Soph!

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

"There Can Be Only One" unless you're my mate, in which case it's your round :)

"There Can Be Only A Few"!

Of course, wasn't Connor "The One" for a while? I remember he sure seemed to be at the end of the first movie. The Highlander universe isn't the most consistent one, that's for sure.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I don't usually do "I love your icon comments", but I really love your icon.

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

I liked Something Wicked and Deliverance. I think it gave Adrian a chance to really stretch himself as an actor and show us what Duncan was capable of.

As far as Methos - that's one of the things about him - are we ever really 100 % sure of his motives? And I know it's a slash responce - but why in the world would Methos ever try and put himself in the line of fire to help Duncan? He could have taken his head when he was dead instead of taking him to the church. He wanted Duncan saved. And the only reason I can possibly think of is because he loved him.

And then to give him the Claymore after seeing him kill Sean - Methos had to be nuts and in love.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

As far as Methos - that's one of the things about him - are we ever really 100 % sure of his motives?

Nope! And that's part of the allure -- for me at least.

And I know it's a slash responce - but why in the world would Methos ever try and put himself in the line of fire to help Duncan? He could have taken his head when he was dead instead of taking him to the church. He wanted Duncan saved. And the only reason I can possibly think of is because he loved him.

But even if you don't see the slash aspect, as I don't, I certainly don't rule out love as a motivator. I've had several blog discussions over the last few years about different aspects of love, something the English language doesn't do a very good job of expressing. Do I think there's love between Duncan and Methos? Yes, I do. I just don't see it as a sexually expressed love. Not sure if that makes sense :)

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

absolutely it makes sense. They really do seem to care about one another very much. They have both risked their own life for the other time and again. Methos especially for Duncan.

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

Ha! I read some really dark, disturbing fic about this episode be fore I ever had a chance to watch it! And then when I finally got to watch the episode I was amazed how well AP played dark.

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

It was rather a revelation to me when the episodes first aired. I didn't know AP had it in him for that sort of dark.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

*coming from hl_flash*

Does nobody but me find evil!Duncan almost laughable? I mean, how do we know he's evil? He's wearing an earring, that's how! Okay, the thing with the woman was distrubing and killing Sean Burns was sad, but the rest of it seems more like teenage hijinks than anything else. He's certainly not up to Horsemen-levels of terror.

And as for Methos - well I read his attempts to save Duncan (while his girlfriend is dying elsewhere) as love, sexual or not, and the knowledge that if somebody had to take Duncan's head, it should be either a mortal (which would mean that Duncan's quickening would be lost) or an Immortal able to handle a Dark Quickening, like Methos.

Of course, I also thought the holy spring was silly too, and entertained a theory that Methos had spiked the water with LSD, told Duncan to go battle his dark side, and hoped for the best.

Um, in conclusion, I snickered much of the way through what was supposed to be a pretty serious episode. Not the most convincing display of Duncan's dark side, but, hey, at least it's pretty slashy!

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Welcome :)

I will admit there are several bits during that episode that get a few raised eyebrows from me. I said in one of the earlier comments, I think it was mostly to get Duncan in the Holy Hot Tub so he could writhe around all wet. Heh!

Also, I think they needed to have some sort of reason for him to kill Sean so he could get all angsty over it.

I always have Empire Strikes Back flashbacks actually during the water scene-- you know, Luke in the tree battling Vader while Yoda looks on. I have been known to say to the screen, "Anger leads to the dark side, young Jedi'. But I'm a geek :)

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the welcome! ^_^

I have no objections to Duncan being all wet. *g* Though the way he drove the stolen car was pretty giggle-inducing.

I always have Empire Strikes Back flashbacks actually during the water scene-- you know, Luke in the tree battling Vader while Yoda looks on. I have been known to say to the screen, "Anger leads to the dark side, young Jedi'. But I'm a geek :)

*grins* Would that make Methos Yoda then? They could be around the same age, I guess. *ducks* I still like my LSD theory though. Might fic that someday.

Actually, now that I think about it, Methos could have all sorts of reasons for attempting to save the Highlander's head - Duncan could pose a danger to Joe, who is Methos's friend as well. I also liked the comment about the Game somebody made above, though I'm not sure if Methos believes in the Game.

Looks at long, rambly comment. Yes, I am procastinating on my last paper, why do you ask? *g*

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the welcome! ^_^

The more the merrier!

I have no objections to Duncan being all wet. *g* Though the way he drove the stolen car was pretty giggle-inducing.

Nothing to do with anything, but wasn't that an awesome view? The ocean that is, not Methos :)

*grins* Would that make Methos Yoda then? They could be around the same age, I guess. *ducks* I still like my LSD theory though. Might fic that someday.

Well, Yoda had all sorts of roots and herbs in his stump....

Actually, now that I think about it, Methos could have all sorts of reasons for attempting to save the Highlander's head - Duncan could pose a danger to Joe, who is Methos's friend as well. I also liked the comment about the Game somebody made above, though I'm not sure if Methos believes in the Game.

That's the thing with Methos -- you're never entirely sure what his motivations are.

Looks at long, rambly comment. Yes, I am procastinating on my last paper, why do you ask? *g*

LJ comments are the best for procrastinating!

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

Of course, I also thought the holy spring was silly too, and entertained a theory that Methos had spiked the water with LSD, told Duncan to go battle his dark side, and hoped for the best.

Ha! That's one of the best theories I've ever heard!

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

*grins* Thank you! And it would be such a Methos thing to do. He'd have to keep a straight face when Macleod described his "mystical" experience later, though. *g*

[kethali.livejournal.com]

Does nobody but me find evil!Duncan almost laughable? I mean, how do we know he's evil? He's wearing an earring, that's how! Okay, the thing with the woman was distrubing and killing Sean Burns was sad, but the rest of it seems more like teenage hijinks than anything else. He's certainly not up to Horsemen-levels of terror.

He wore the earing in 'Duende', too.

Myself, I found it pretty damn hilarious that one of the measures of Duncan's terrible evilness had been his grabbing someone's car and driving it in circles all over the church's nicely tended lawn. For that matter, even the ordeal with Dominique wasn't... all that, either. So he lies to her and he seduces her--which is different from what 90% of the male population try to do on a regular basis how, exactly? I attribue the mildness of evil!Duncan to the times when the show was filmed; TV got so much more gritty in the last decade (think 24, for example). I'll bet if those two episodes were being filmed nowadays, he'd be raping that woman rather than romancing her with wine and glibe jokes, and she'd probably be sporting quite a few bruises afterward.

Having said that, I did like those episodes--mostly because I adore the evil!Duncan look and mannerisms. And yeah, the vivid slashiness didn't hurt any.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

Myself, I found it pretty damn hilarious that one of the measures of Duncan's terrible evilness had been his grabbing someone's car and driving it in circles all over the church's nicely tended lawn.

Me and my friend Toni, who I had been rewatching the Methos episodes with, broke down in giggles at that point. And again when he didn't stop at the stop sign, though I suppose it would have been even funnier if he had stopped.

I'll bet if those two episodes were being filmed nowadays, he'd be raping that woman rather than romancing her with wine and glibe jokes, and she'd probably be sporting quite a few bruises afterward.

*nods* You're most likely right. And I think the episode was trying to suggest that he would have moved on to rape and violence if Methos hadn't shown up when he did.

Having said that, I did like those episodes--mostly because I adore the evil!Duncan look and mannerisms. And yeah, the vivid slashiness didn't hurt any.

Oh, me too. And slashiness doesn't hurt anything. I mean, please, Methos left his *dying girlfriend* to come to the rescue, and risked his own life in the process. It's pretty easy to read slash into it (though possible not to) and we got great Methos facial expressions and lines out of it, ranging from fear in the church to amusement when Duncan steals the car. *grins*

[eveningblue.livejournal.com]

I think that the writers were unsure of how far they could go in making Duncan evil! while still keeping him heroic. I'm not sure the audience would have stayed with Duncan if he'd actually raped the woman.

The writers took more risks with evil!Methos the following season, but then again he wasn't really heroic, or the hero of the show, to begin with.